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why all the high end stuff, when cheap is just as good or better?

Discussion in 'Flashlights & Other Illumination Devices' started by macguyver, Aug 8, 2008.

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  1. macguyver

    macguyver Loaded Pockets

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    I'm not oppose to surefire I mention them because they are the standard which everyone is compared to. Sure they look cool, but heck the amount of money they charge for a torch it better be made out of gold if you ask me. Take the inova x5 great flashlight at an ok price I would trust it with my life and thats about as high end as I think anyone should ever go for. Take the lowly maglite, which was the standard for tactical gear back in the day now its consider low end really lowly. I've never had one of those things fail on me and I've really abused it. It doesn't look as sexy or tactical as the sure fire, the coating on them sucks very soft after awhile you going to see the aluminium, I can live with that besides if it ever gets so bang up to the oint it just looking nasty I can always pick up another one for dirt cheap. I'm always amaze when people say you can't make things in the u.s. at a cheap price with quality, I always point out that maglite does. I'm not going to pay 80 dollars for a flashlight made in china. With the minimag you can put out the same amount or more of light as any comparable surefire for pennies. There lots you can do to them and they can be made waterproof. Don't worry about the shock proof deal flashlight these days are made :censored: good even cheap ones are pretty much shock proof. if you want something that looks tactical and the bomb out the box brinkman 1 watt led is what you should go for very durable flashlight had one for years if and its only 15 dollars! There really no need to get like a surefire even if you are in security business, I know from personal experience. Its just amazing how many people buy so call high end flashlight and than go and buy a cheap worthless knife made by smith and wesson. I would rather buy a good flashlight minus and invest it in high end blade.
     
  2. carrot

    carrot Loaded Pockets

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    A lot of us here gravitate towards the nicer, more expensive stuff.

    Why? Because we enjoy them. A premium brand means a nicer feel, fit and finish, and yes, even some of the prestige that comes with a name.

    A lot of us have also tried a LOT of options, and there are plenty of us who have settled on things like Surefire and more expensive customs because they offer exactly what we envision to be the "perfect" light, perfectly suited to our needs and wants.

    There is no doubt that we could certainly live with cheaper stuff, but when life is so short, why should you put up with minor annoyances when you can afford better, when fixing those annoyances will put a little grin on your face every time you use ___ tool? If an expensive light like a Surefire will make someone happier than something cheaper, and they can afford to spend the money, why not?

    Why would you invest in a high end blade? I could say that a Boker Trance (which, by the way is a fantastic knife) can totally do everything a Sebenza can-- which would mostly be true, but you'd never compare a Sebenza or a Strider on the same level as the Trance. They are just so different! Yet a lot of users here love their Boker Trances and Keycoms, which are not at all premium or terribly fancy but still real working knives.
     
  3. temujin

    temujin Uber Prepared

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    Well, it's like my teacher told me, opinions are like, er... bellybuttons. Everybody has one.

    Myself, I carry a SureFire if the situation is decidedly high-risk. In fact, my old 6P is usually in my bag. Why? Because if it's my butt, I'm worth the expense. My SureFire lights have been more reliable than any I've owned. The key is not the price, but the quality. If I could find a light that equals or exceeds a SureFire for a lesser price, I'd be all over it.

    For more mundane uses, I have an Inova X5 in my pocket and a Photon Micro-Light on my keyring. I have never had a Photon fail, but I have had Inovas fail and even be defective right out of the box.
     
  4. ADK031

    ADK031 Loaded Pockets

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    Generally you get what you pay for. Maglites used to be the flashlight of choice back in the day simply because there weren't many alternatives. Now I try to steer people away from them. Much better stuff out there for the same price.
     
  5. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    In some cases and product types a cheap item can do the job as well but this is not always the case. I would never use cheap snowshoes doing winter backpacking, I would not compare a Sig 210 to most other handguns, you will never win a Palma match with a cheap rifle and I would not explore Cheve (super deep difficult cave) with a cheap light.
     
  6. jmm1974

    jmm1974 Empty Pockets

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    just my opinion but some people are blade people, some are light fanatics, and some are multitool addicts. but every body prefers their own "style" of gear. me i love my surefires wouldn't trade my e2d led for all the maglights i could carry. (although i keep a mag in each car) for my use a mini mag is no where near as bright or does it throw as far as a surefire, even my 3d mag falls far short compared to the new ultra bright Cree led lights. and as someone who carries a s&w blade its the perfect knife to give out when you here "hey can i borrow a knife?" from a friend or coworker. if it breaks while they use it as a prybar i buy another for $8 and move on. don't think me a snob about lights i have everything from my surefires down to 99 cent wal mart specials, i just don't bet my safety on the lesser lights.
     
  7. Marduke

    Marduke Loaded Pockets

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    Why not carry a Mag?

    1 mode
    poor efficiency
    poor reliability (led AA versions)

    And most of all
    You can get a light the size of your thumb which is both brighter and runs longer than any Mag you can buy off the shelf.

    For the price of the overpriced LED Mags, you can get something MUCH better in every possible way.
     
  8. jmm1974

    jmm1974 Empty Pockets

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    :lolhammer:
     
  9. mrichelo

    mrichelo Loaded Pockets

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    If you are going to compare Mag to Surefire look at who their intended customer is. Also look at their R&D.

    <opinion>
    How long did it take Mag to come out with LED lights? They have had the same design for years. Granted the form factor has stood the test of time. I consider it a classic. However the technology behind it has become dated IMO.
    <opinion/>

    Surefire is focusing their product at soldiers and law enforcement. The president has a PHD. They have scientists working on their R&D team.

    Do many us us NEED a Surefire light? Perhaps not. But their is a certain comfort or satisfaction knowing you purchased a product that is the best it can be. A product that was produced with intent and consideration to quality. Sometimes you can even "feel" it in the fit and finish of the product. Sometimes it is the feel you get from using it.

    Some of us are willing to pay for that difference.

    Mark
     
  10. shrap

    shrap Loaded Pockets

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    You don't understand our hobby, we don't understand yours. Why can't we just agree to disagree?
     
  11. clarkedb

    clarkedb Loaded Pockets

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    ...it's just money :knuppel2:
     
  12. macguyver

    macguyver Loaded Pockets

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    Hobby? If you are in the business of collecting flashlight than my argument doesn't apply to you, however if you are edc because you want to be prepared for when :censored: the fan sort of deal.

    There no question that surefire is a good product but are they that much better than inova, brinkman and other reasonable flashlight? I brought up the maglite because they are cheap easy to mod and are solidly made in the u.s.a.


    Someone brought up the fact that it took maglite a long time to bring out led compared to other companies, the probable reason is how to keep the price down for their customers versus they couldn't do it. We are talking about flashlight here not rocket science. As far as reliability of maglite led I haven't seen quality issue with maglite led or any led issues of most manufactures. Today's technology is top notch so you are unlikely going to get any failures with led flashlights. However for those who are concerned about reliability issue of mag led you could always mod it to your own needs plenty of people have its bullet proof! I'm not trying to sell you on maglite but just pointing out that so call high end tactical flashlights are overpriced for what they are. AS for lithium battery vs nickle battery. There is no question that lithium battery does have a longer run time, aa but the maglite 3 watt led AA run time is 2 hour and 30 minutes. surefire l1 run time is 2 hours. I got those numbers from flashlightreviews.com Furthermore if you were in :censored: ht the fan situation you be more likely to be ale to find AA than lithium. AA are solid batteries as long as you buy name brand stuff and don't keep them years in your car where the heats kills them but that goes for lithium as well.

    For the person who said look who maglite are made for, for the longest time they were the torch of choice for security and law enforcement personnel. Is sure fire a better product you bet but the question is how much if you only had 1000 dollars to divide up all your gear would you spend 150 dollars on a flashlight?
     
  13. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    Some of us have had lights fail. It is not always for the unplanned usage as there are a few of us that go where we can't run into town to get more batteries, we can't stop what we are doing, and have had equipment go bad.

    Rocket science, perhaps not but the first time things are done it is alot more difficult than to come along and do what has already been done.

    I was once involved in a flashlight project where in the end around 300k was spent. On the team where people like this person. Fergus Noble that was the youngest to do home based fusion. Even for him it was a challenging thing to do.

    Home made fusion

    A ton of things where done for the first time by high end craftsman and Surefire. They blazed the trail for others to come along behind and just put together the pieces that others mapped out.

    If we quit supporting those that do what has not been done before nothing really new will ever happen.
     
  14. DB

    DB Kilted Moderator

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    You better believe it. Knowing that my budget was that limited for all my gear, making sure I had a bombproof reliable light would be top priority for my list of gear. I wouldn't take the chance of buying a cheap light that could fail on me at any moment just to save a buck for something else.
     
  15. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    Tactical guys are not the only people that want good lights.

    How about if you were on Mt. Washington slipping, sliding, falling while trying to find shelter from the wind at night. No cheap light for me there.

    How about if you here on the survey group mapping this nightmare, side view and top view. Map I think it is now 300 miles of up, down, crawling and climbing. In a place like this my headlamp is going to be $300.00

    Some of are used to spending as many hours 10 miles or more from any type of store as we do near a town. To some it does not matter what batteries are easy to find you can't get to anyplace to get some.
     
  16. flip

    flip Empty Pockets

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    I buy and carry good lights. In my opinion, I'm worth it!
     
  17. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    "a cada o prĂ³prio" (to each his own) is what my Portugese grammy was fond of saying.

    I buy what I conclude, after thoroughly researching it, WILL perform best for ME. My pockets aren't deep at all, however I will save to get the better stuff.
     
  18. macguyver

    macguyver Loaded Pockets

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    no doubt if you got the bread why not, everyone should treat themselves well , however not all of us are born with silver spoon in our mouths. The question is how much better is surefire than say inova? What are the chances of a inova failing if you were rolling down a mountain? The average light will do as well as surefire in the extreme condition you mentioned. surefire are the suv looks real tough and certainly are but how much mor so. I wish someone would actually test that out.
     
  19. mrichelo

    mrichelo Loaded Pockets

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    If that was true Surefire wouldn't sell any lights. If Surefires weren't any tougher than an Inova or Maglite the people that need that functionality would buy something else.

    I'm pretty sure Surefire flashlights have been proven in combat situations. I seem to recall a photo of one shot with a bullet and it still functioned. It was in a catalog.

    Type III hard anodized aluminum body, pyrex glass lens, CNC machined aluminum reflectors.

    It seems you are criticizing Surefire for being overpriced. If you don't appreciate the differences in Surefire or any other product don't buy it. If you are asking if there is a difference. There is.

    Is the difference worth the price? Many people think so and buy Surefire products. There really isn't much point in debating whether a product is overpriced or not.

    Mark
     
  20. carrot

    carrot Loaded Pockets

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    [mo]Just a friendly reminder to play nice, guys. This is a pretty loaded topic for discussion. :eek:o:[/mo]

    And yes, I think Inova are plenty reliable (X1 aside), but they seem to have have gaps in their product lineup that make them less popular for EDC. Especially since they are single stage and many of Surefire's most popular are multi-stage.
     
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