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Who has had a slip joint knife blade close on their finger(s)?

Discussion in 'Knives' started by Moshe ben David, Aug 16, 2017.

?

(a) how many slip joints do you carry? (b) how many blade closing accidents have you had?

  1. Never carry a slip joint

    6.3%
  2. Only carry one slip joint

    23.4%
  3. Routinely carry 2 or more slip joints

    21.9%
  4. Never had one close during use

    53.1%
  5. Have had one close during use

    21.9%
  6. Have had two accidental closures over the years

    6.3%
  7. Have had slip joints close by accident many times

    10.9%
  8. Accident cutting up cardboard boxes

    3.1%
  9. Accident while at a campsite

    4.7%
  10. Accident during whittling

    10.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    There's no doubt about it, a non locking blade isn't as safe to use as a locking one,.....I'm surprised that the health and safety brigade haven't actually had them banned by now, well at least here in the UK. Lol

    Due to our crazy laws I'm stuck with one for EDC, thank god for the likes of Spyderco & Boker who make slip joints with choils/guards that provide some safety for the user's fingers. I still love and carry a SAK but won't risk using any of the attachments for that matter in an hard use way, even the flat bladed screwdriver can hurt if it starts to fold.
     
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  2. this_is_nascar

    this_is_nascar Loaded Pockets

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    40+ years with a slip-joint and never an accidental closing. You must understand the limits of the tool you're using.


    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod Loaded Pockets

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    I've had one close partially once or twice over the years. I attributed to trying to use the wrong tool for the job. I was trying to cut through wood that was too hard or thick for a SAK so when I pulled the blade back it stuck in the wood and it closed partially. Too big of a job for the SAK so I pulled out a fixed blade. Not a safety issue. No injury but It happens.
     
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  4. Moshe ben David

    Moshe ben David Loaded Pockets

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    Can't help but wonder. Are you speaking based on actual experience of blade closure or are you speaking based on conjecture? The reason I started this thread was the prevalence of so many who state as fact exactly as you have. I'm not criticizing you; far from it. I just think it will be interesting to see what actual experiences as opposed to conjecture reveal!

    My own starting position is that with the very long history of slip joint knives plus their continued wide spread use (e.g., SAK's), if they were in fact overwhelmingly dangerous by now they'd be a rarity. But they don't appear to be even in today's market.

    So this thread is a fact finding mission... and a seeking of empirical data.

    L'chaim!

    Moshe ben David
     
  5. Water-Rat

    Water-Rat Loaded Pockets

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    I have never had a slipjoint close on my fingers during use. I have had them close on my fingers while opening/closing due to losing my grip on the blade and having the spring slam the blade closed with another finger too close to the blade. Never anything more than a little nick, though.
     
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  6. Brainstorm

    Brainstorm Loaded Pockets

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    @Moshe ben David : Good topic! I agree with your assessment that slip-joint knives are not inherently unsafe. The widespread use and popularity of SAK and similar simple, non-locking, folding knives offers plenty of evidence.

    Having grown up in Switzerland, it goes without saying that I've owned a bunch of SAK's over the years. Definitely had a few of them bite as I was learning how to use a folding knife properly as a kid. First time was on a school hike, with the military issue SAK I had borrowed from my dad. I don't remember for sure what I was cutting, but it was probably just a stubborn apple. ;)

    At some point in my teens, I learned about locking folders. The first one I saved up for was a German Puma. These days, I'd say 3/4 of my knives are Spyderco lockers. The rest are slip-joints with shorter blades, which I mostly use when traveling to more restrictive jurisdictions.

    Still boggles my mind that something innocuous like a small Spyderco Dragonfly locker would be illegal in some jurisdictions. I think a slip-joint with a larger blade would be much more dangerous. But who am I to say? Politicians will be politicians. And laws are laws. :rolleyes:

    PS: @Water-Rat has a good point. Most of those SAK cuts were small nicks while opening or closing the blade, rather than cuts while mis-using the knife. Greasy, slippery fingers (salami!) and knives don't mix well. ;)
     
    Last edited by Brainstorm, Aug 18, 2017
    #26 Brainstorm, Aug 18, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  7. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    Speaking from an engineering/design aspect and experience too. I think that SAK's are still so popular because they are an iconic gadget now, most small boys will be excited to see/own one. Nothing wrong with that, just know their limits, don't put any pressure on them at the wrong angle etc.
     
  8. Slipjoint

    Slipjoint Loaded Pockets

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    I don't know if I've ever had the blade close on my fingers hard enough to cut, but I have had slipjoints try to close on my when I was thrusting with the point. However, that was my fault, not the fault of the knife, and I have learned to be more careful.

    I *did* accidentally give myself a good cut after sharpening the hell out of a Swiss Army knife, but it wasn't an issue of the
    Blade closing accidentally, just me being clumsy.
     
  9. Moose

    Moose Loaded Pockets

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    My experience with slippies mirrors Brainstorm and others: A few (thankfully minor) bites as a youngster as the blade got away from me on opening or closing. But with experience that happened less and less until now it must be decades since the last time a slippy bit me.

    As edc choice is limited in the UK to slippies, I give great thanks to the likes of Spyderco and Boker for their fresh designs and carry my BB Spyderco Urban daily (alongside my Wenger SAK).

    And again I agree with Brainstorm: where/when lawful I will carry a locking knife by preference. For a loose analogy: I have workd on building sites in nonsafety boots and not come to grief, but given the choice I'd rather be wearing my steel toes when theres work to be done.

    Legal restrictions on fixed blades and/or locking knives and the accompanying tacit cultural shift away from 'the outdoor life' and 'knives are tools' has kept the slipjoint so popular a choice. A slipjoint has pretty much always covered the bases for most casual tasks and it's still relatively societally permissible to use in public.

    However I contend that where lockers are lawful, and the outdoors ethic is still strong, lockers and fixed blades out sell slipjoints as a persons' edc cutting tool. Victorinox make bigger, more rugged locking knives that cater exactly to this type of user.

    I love my Spydy Urban, it is a very capable little knife; but the extra size and layer of safety on Delica and Enduras etc makes them more practical general service cutting tools.

    As an aside: i love the classy elegance that some of the traditional nail-nick slipjoints exude but find the one hand opening ability of more modern designs convenient (and therefore an improvement) in application of my main cutting tool.
     
    #29 Moose, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  10. A.B.

    A.B. Loaded Pockets

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    I think I can safely say the older ones of us grew up with a slippie in their pocket. And I bet everybody did something stupid with said knife and it bit them. I for one did when I was a kid. And so you learn...

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G950F met Tapatalk
     
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  11. Lellobeetle

    Lellobeetle Loaded Pockets

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    Can't enter two different variables into that poll. I carry at least 2 slip joints and I've never had one close on me accidentally.
     
  12. gdwtvb

    gdwtvb Loaded Pockets

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    I got bit bad as a kid while whittling. (stitches required.) Still carry and use them, can't recall the last time I had one close on me unintentionally. But, I always have a locking blade or six handy, so I do choose the right tool for the job at hand. Cutting coupons, string, or opening mail are all hard to mess up with while using a slippie.

    Grizz
     
  13. Moshe ben David

    Moshe ben David Loaded Pockets

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    Really? I just tested it myself and was able to put a 'tick' in each of several boxes...

    Usually polls with these square tick boxes allow for that.

    No idea why it gave you trouble. Wish I had a better answer......

    L'chaim!

    Moshe ben David
     
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  14. _mg_

    _mg_ Loaded Pockets

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    Slip joints don't cut fingers...butter-fingers do.
     
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  15. Narcosynthesis

    Narcosynthesis Loaded Pockets

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    When young and stupid I had one close on my fingers when I was misusing it (and which my fingers still bear the scar of), learnt my lesson and have been happily carrying one (safely) for the twenty years since then...

    I am going to hazard a guess that this will be a very familiar story to many - I firmly believe that most people need to scare themselves before they will fully understand the danger of something - whether that is driving a car and getting a bit too comfortable and overconfident, or as noted here, getting too blasé when using something potentially dangerous like a knife and doing something stupid.

    I believe this is exactly the reason why they are *not* banned in the UK - to use one as a weapon (which is what the laws are aiming to prevent) puts yourself too much at risk to be practical - if I were to stab someone with a SAK I am almost as likely to end up with a knife shut on my finger as I am with an injured target.
    Alongside this, if you have a justifiable reason, you are allowed to carry locking or fixed blades - so if you are doing an activity where that level of safety becomes an issue, having a locking blade is fine, you just aren't allowed to carry it 'just in case'
     
  16. Moshe ben David

    Moshe ben David Loaded Pockets

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    @Narcosynthesis: You're not the first person to state that a SAK or (perhaps) most any decent quality slip joint would be risky when used as a weapon due to the item's propensity to close on one's finger. I don't buy it. At all. Which is why I started this thread.

    I've used various SAK and others to cut meat both raw and cooked; used said items at the barbecue and stabbed at a piece of meat. Never had a blade close on its own. If you look at the results in the poll at the beginning of this thread, there just don't seem to be many accidental closures. And it appears that the leading situation for accidental closures took place during whittling; not stabbing.

    I admit, during a fight, it is conceivable that a blade would impact a button, belt buckle, leather garment, etc. etc., which might cause an unexpected closure. Personally I can just as easily picture a locked blade being deflected in an unexpected way from such an obstacle and 'perhaps' also resulting in an accident.

    But a stab directly into flesh? Or even through cloth? Unless the blade is defective I don't see it closing. Maybe I'm mistaken... just my humble opinion.

    L'chaim!

    Moshe ben David
     
  17. Yablanowitz

    Yablanowitz Loaded Pockets

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    Take a long look at the spear point blade of the typical Swiss Army Knife. You may notice that it is sharpened only on one edge. If you thrust it into an object with considerable force, what happens? The sharpened edge cuts the material while the flat spine does not. What does that mean? The rounded shape of the point in combination with the flat spine will generate closing force, i.e. the blade tip will tend to move downward since the bottom cuts and the top does not. Once you move the point a bit out of alignment with the axis of the thrust, the spring is no longer holding the blade open and you are suddenly slamming the knife shut, most probably on your fingers. This is not a theory, it is what I worked out while trying to figure out why I was bleeding (again), and the pair of crescent shaped scars on the side of my right index finger tell me it wasn't a one time fluke occurrence. A non-locking spear point folder makes a poor thrusting weapon. If the target is soft enough, it might not matter, but hit a bone and you'll hurt yourself as badly (or perhaps worse) than the person you stabbed.
     
  18. Lightnig

    Lightnig Loaded Pockets

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    I don't, and never have, carried one.

    Not because of the lack of a lock, but because I have yet to find a decent design one hand open. I absolutely abhor two handed opening knives...
     
  19. Fragarach

    Fragarach Loaded Pockets

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    I've never had a blade accidently close...
    Now that flat blade screw driver when you are trying to undo a jammed up old thread with a chewed up top and are forcing it foward into the groove as you turn so it doesn't strip out more is bloody deadly and has resulted in a few bruised knuckles as the slip joint closed without warning.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
     
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  20. jloden

    jloden Empty Pockets

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    I didn't carry a slipjoint knife for a long time for this exact reason. When I was a kid I was cutting cardboard boxes (to make a fort, if I remember correctly) and the swiss army knife I was using closed across three of my fingers. That soured me on slipjoints, and when I discovered liner lock and framelock knives I didn't go back for quite a while.

    Nowadays I regularly carry at least one slipjoint (SAKs mostly), but I've also learned a lot about knife safety and knife handling in the intervening years... as one might hope! That said, there are certain tasks when I still absolutely prefer a solid locking knife. Safe knife handling trumps everything of course, but any kind of batoning, punching, stabbing, prying, or other aggressive use is where I want a locking or fixed blade. If I'm going to punch a hole in some drywall and notch an opening then I'll take the lock :D Opening the mail, peeling an apple, or cutting paper then an SAK or traditional folder is perfectly fine and I use one all the time.