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Who Carries a Tourniquet?

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by jeremiahak, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. len0475

    len0475 Loaded Pockets

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    The issue lies in improper training. Even the best of medics under stress will have some problems applying a CAT. With an improvised TQ, it leaves the possibility for further injury (compartment syndrome) and even death. Not saying a CAT could not do this, but it reduces the possibility for errors. The military would rather teach a standard on these devices and keeping it on your person with any improvised technique as a backup. It isn't that it's not being taught, there isn't that much emphasis on it anymore.

    Oh and to answer the OP's question: In my STOMP II bag, I usually have 10 CATs. In my dismount M9, there's at least 4 on the outside with 3-4 more on the inside of the pack.
     
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  2. len0475

    len0475 Loaded Pockets

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    This is the most educated response I've heard in a while. Most people fail to realize there is a difference between war zones and being at home. The length of time to transport at home is much faster and much predictable than in a war zone where a lot of variables can change a MEDEVAC mission in a blink of an eye. Example: Dust Off can't land because the landing zone hasn't been cleared for IED/Mines. Thus extending the amount of time the patient is in your care. So in an environment like that, you don't have the luxury to take chances with any types of bleeding. The idea is to keep the bleeding contained so you can increase the likelihood of survival. If MEDEVAC takes hours, that slow venous bleeding you've been trying to control with direct pressure or pressure bandage will put the patient at a higher risk.
     
  3. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

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    You'll get no arguments from me about the variables but AVERAGE from time of call to arrival at hospital for T1 cases is shorter for deployed combat troops than civilians in a rural setting and MERT teams can do far more at scene and on route than civilian paramedics.
     
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  4. Kinzei
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Kinzei EDC Junkie

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    I have one in my jump bag at work. I work in an industrial chemical manufacturing plant, but out side of training I have never used one. I believe it is the standard now for the National Registry exam. This also seems to change every few years as well.
     
  5. remidog870

    remidog870 Loaded Pockets

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    OP thanks for the reply and look forward to reading over the scan you have. Im currently studying physical therapy so definitely wont have a likely need for a swat t. Like most of us on the forum we like to be prepared for the likely as well as the unlikely. Im goint to get a couple swat-t to check out.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk
     
  6. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    Ya, I get it. I've never advocated anything but training and proper gear as the first and best course of action. Like I said earlier, I personally have a bag that I either carry or is very close by at all times that is half filled with real deal trauma gear. But the original question was...




    I submit that because of the relative bulk of a tourniquet, that an ON PERSON solution doesn't happen often or at all unless you have a very dangerous job in a faraway land. I very much doubt that more than handful of LEOs and EMTs have ON PERSON tourniquets. I hold out the possibility that I could be wrong, but when first responders show up, they are usually dragging a bag. They are not working out of their pockets. Which is probably the way it ought to be, but that wasn't the question. For sure, even relatively prepared non first responders, such as the majority of this forum's membership, don't have the pocket or belt space for such a bulky item. Hence, the talk about improvised alternatives.

    Again, this is what's in every bag I own, usually augmented by a chest seal and, of course, shears-
    [​IMG]
    That's a TR VOK, btw, so there is a TK-4 in the picture, even though you can't see it.

    As far as response times go, my thoughts are in line with VinnyP's. While I live in an extremely densely populated state, my residence is pretty rural and it could easily take ten to thirty minutes before volunteer EMS shows up. And that''s if it is just a normal emergency. Heaven forbid any of us are at the scene of violent trauma, then no medical help is coming until the scene is secure. You're pretty SOL at that point unless you have the tools, both in your brain and in your bag, to deal with it.

    That's not my imagination. The TSA employee that was killed at LAX apparently bleed to death in the half hour or so it took for help to arrive. And that's only the most recent example. That scenario plays out all the time.

    None of this tourniquet debate or anything else we would every do on a very bad day is ever going to be as good as not having the bad day in the first place, but I'd rather have something than nothing and the will to use it. But, hey, that's just me. I'm sort of Gandalf on the bridge that way.

    The good news is, we all still get do decide for ourselves what to carry.
     
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  7. len0475

    len0475 Loaded Pockets

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    I think what it all boils down to is your personal experience and training. The debate about TQ use will continue to go on as long as a standard have not been established. There are some die-hard EMT/Paramedics who either swear by it or don't. My background is Military Medicine, so of course our curriculum pushes the liberal use of them. The data doesn't lie as it has been attributed to saving life and limb time and time again in our current conflict. With that being said, the types of wound encountered on the battlefield is not like the types of wound in the civilian world. Statistics on the battlefield shows that blast or penetrating trauma is the number one cause of death. Whereas civilian deaths are attributed more to blunt force trauma. The environment is different and because of that you should always adapt. There are thousands of ways to stop bleeding. Rather than focus on the equipment being used, I think it is far more important to understand how the body works and learn the different techniques.

    But to answer the OP's question, I do not keep a TQ on my person unless I am on duty.

    PS. Lots of great points being brought up. I really enjoyed reading what everyone has to say. :)
     
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  8. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    Yup.
     
  9. thekapow

    thekapow EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    i have now responded to the pm's and post here about people wanting the article, happy reading :)
     
  10. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

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    While all this response time and what is better suited for TQ application or not is very relevant there are other factors. Keep in mind it is probably safe to say the average poster on these forums is an outdoors person. That being they will be in a non permissive environment where self care is of greater probability and response time is severely diminished. From recreational hikers, to desert shooter and hunters, building a habit of carrying a tq is not just for the 20 minute commute from one side of town to the other because of the "what if?"

    This is also not even addressing issues like active shooters where trained physicians or responders can't access a scene for a period of time. The TSA agent was unattended for 33 minutes inside of LAX before primary care could be given.

    Not to say the tq is a fix all or necessary in all situations. But again as EDC goes you must look at the bigger picture. Given most of what is an average EDC is never utilized, much less everyday,it goes back to better have and not need than need and not have.


    Sent via satellite from outer frickin' space!
     
    Last edited by patientcero, Nov 21, 2013
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  11. Nightrain2221

    Nightrain2221 Loaded Pockets

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    I carry two rubber tourniquets in two different sizes and a Cat.
     
  12. DavieWavie

    DavieWavie Loaded Pockets

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    I carry two CAT TQ in my car but would only ever use them as a last resort and even then would be hesitant, purely because I have heard of too many guys using what they have been taught in the military only to be sued for damaged caused when helping civilians!

    Have used the CAT in anger for a double high leg amputee as a result of an IED blast and it was by no means a easy task, there is no way an improvised TQ would be as effective without considerable training and practice and even then would not have faith in it. If you need to use a TQ you want it to work first time and quickly
     
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  13. rhosey

    rhosey Loaded Pockets

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    I recently received training & a free SOFFT-W tourniquet at the NC Homicide Investigator's Association conference. I carry it in my patrol car & love the simplicity of the design and all metal components (no plastic). The SWAT medic who taught the course stated that blood caused the stretchy rubber type tourniquets to become so slippery that they were nearly impossible to use outside of a training exercise, and strongly recommended against them FWIW.
     
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  14. TarHeelBrit
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    TarHeelBrit Loaded Pockets

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    Thanks for the info. I have some SWAT's on my list but I might have to rethink them now.
     
  15. Lou_G

    Lou_G Banned

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    I can't speak for other "stretchy rubber type" tourniquets, but the SWAT-T is still sticky when wet, bloody and/or dirty. My personal favorite is the SOFTT-W, followed by the C.A.T.

    I do like to augment either with the SWAT-T because it is multi-purpose. It is also great in small trauma kits where you don't want the bulk of the others.

    Maybe if I can buy some pig blood or something, I can make a video demonstrating one, as I'm sure there will be some naysayers. I'm not inclined to use my own blood in the demonstration, however.
     
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  16. TarHeelBrit
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    TarHeelBrit Loaded Pockets

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    Good idea, I've heard a rumor that blood works best when it's inside the body and not on the outside.
     
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  17. ranastas

    ranastas Loaded Pockets

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    I like the swat-t, but I wonder about it's application if u are alone with an arm wound
     
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  18. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    Speaking from experience, uninjured and in my living room, I can say that this would not be a situation you'd want to find yourself in.
     
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  19. ranastas

    ranastas Loaded Pockets

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    I've taken a class, and this is one of the things we covered. It's not impossible, but it's definitely not something I would want to chance, especially with decreased fine motor control from whatever traumatic incident u choose to insert
     
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  20. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    I didn't mean to imply that it was impossible, just very difficult. As we all know, things that are difficult to do are infinitely more difficult to do when you are hurt, cold, tired, scared, hungry, stressed, or people are shooting at you.
     
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