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Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Crude, Aug 7, 2012.
Funny thing is, they don't mention if had a CCW or not. If he did, the worst they can charge him with is poor judgement. If not, well, throw the book at him.
(Well, there's one other complication: if the theater was posted as a "no carry zone," he's still in deep yogurt even with a CCW.)
That sucks. He should have concealed better. I need alot more info to pass judgement. If it were me I would a) have my cwp b) say sorry and leave and c) never stop being polite and respectful. I assume he didn't do these things and that's why he's in jail.
Gryffin hit on the two points I would like to know about. Did he have a permit (I believe Ohio has a "shall issue" system in place), and did the theater have a "no guns" posting.
He's also clearly guilty of stupidity, concealed means concealed!
Nobody here, we're too smart to do that.
It's an interesting point to ponder, the private property prohibitions against carrying a concealed weapon. There are public access private properties and then there are people's homes, truly PRIVATE property. We have the right to keep and bear arms and carrying them in certain jurisdictions that allow us to jump through some degree of legal hoops to obtain them, should that right be trumped by a private property owner's right to not want that on their property that is a business and not a residence, in other words, public access...
If I had a carry permit and a friend of mine was having a cookout and told me, "Hey, I know you have a carry permit and I don't even know when you carry, but it makes the wife nervous. So, please don't carry a weapon on my property." I think THAT private property right trumps the other right. But this guy is not charging for a service and other things that make the property have public access. I would not go to his cookout.
That having been said, I don't think a business should be able to post the sign. I don't think they should be able to search you or a shoulder bag, woman's purse or a backpack and if they do and you were not guilty of shoplifting, you should be able to sue them.
I think if we are going to allow businesses to do that, there should be a cost to them as well. If they post the sign in a shall issue jurisdiction, they should have to sign a legal document that makes them responsible for any customer being assaulted, robbed, sexually assaulted or murdered on their property if that person had a concealed carry permit and was disarmed by the business owner's policy. Personal responsibility. A person is trying to be responsible for their own safety and they are being denied that right. Not looking for agreement or disagreement at all. Just something for people to think about.
I don't know about other states but in Iowa those signs mean nothing. If you are busted with a firearm the property owner can ask you to leave. At that point they can press charges for trespassing. This applies to your home as well. The only exception: you force entry at 3am....
In Colorado, if you enter a building with one of those signs it's criminal trespass.
Yep and if they demand you are disarmed, they should be made legally responsible for your safety if you take on the personal responsibility of looking out for your own well being. It's really that simple. The largest group of people that are going to disobey those types of signs are the criminals, anyway. So, they are deliberately disarming people who have followed the law to go armed. So, they should be responsible for that or prohibited from the whole sign program, anyway. If I have a carry permit and you tell me I cannot come into your establishment, the way I view it is, I'm a black guy and you're telling me I can't eat in your restaurant. Until people start thinking that way, foolishness will continue to be the norm...which means foolishness is going to continue to be the norm.
@DBR, I agree 100%. And for countries (or US states) that prohibit CCW altogether, the country (or state) and police should be considered responsible and sued by the victim of ANY criminal action that could be avoided if the victim carried a gun that country / state illegalized and police enforced.
I read somewhere, but cannot 100% confirm, that the movie theater in Aurora CO was posted "no carry." If so, I really, REALLY would like to see one or more permit holders who were present during the rampage to take the theater chain to civil court, under exactly that rationale: if you forbid me to protect myself, then you're responsible for my safety. Even one case like that could cause a drastic reduction of those "no carry" postings!
One of the bigger names in firearms training, Ignatius Piazza, is offering to pay all legal fees for the first person or people who do so.
This Ohio guy had a Maxpedition Versipack... In it he had a 9mm with two mags, 3 knives in the bag (and 1 in his pocket), water purification tablets, bandages, and a flashlight. (Pretty much sounds like my Versipack with a couple extra knives in there)
Sure sounds to me like he was ready to gun down the joint.
I've read he did not have a CCW, he was on prescription drugs, and the theater was posted 'no weapons'. Clearly this guy is a frickin moron, but a mass shooter, not at all.
I'd like to see that too but it wouldn't have much effect, the media would neglect to cover it so the word would spread very slowly. We can start doing something now by simply not going to those businesses then sending them an email explaining why we were turned away at the door and a copy of the receipt showing what we spent somewhere else.
It is much easier to get a business owner to change their mind on the basis of lost business, than to force their hand via the legal system.
Can you give us a source for that please?
A small arsenal of weapons were removed Monday night from the North Ridgeville home of Scott A. Smith, who was arrested after showing up armed with a gun, ammunition and four knives at a showing of The Dark Knight Rises Saturday night at Regal Cinema in Crocker Park.
Westlake Police Department lieutenant Ray Arcuri said Tuesday afternoon that his department was still going through everything seized from Smith's home. Here are the highlights:
Several guns, including pistols, shotguns and rifles.
"Thousands" of bullets.
A gas mask.
Police also seized computers from Smith's home, and are awaiting a search warrant to look through them.
Prescription medications were also taken. Police are still verifying what they are, Arcuri said, but he believed one was a blood pressure medication. If there is a problem with prescription drug abuse, Arcuri said, it would mean that he would very likely face the having weapons under disability charges he was charged with after his arrest.
The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office is reviewing the case. Possible charges he could face include four counts of carrying various weapons, one count of carrying a concealed weapon and one count of having weapons under disability.
Smith remained in Westlake jail Tuesday afternoon, Arcuri said, but will probably be sent to the Cuyahoga County Jail in the next day or two.
Arcuri said Smith, 37, is married and has an infant daughter. Westlake police are still trying to nail down the details on Smith's personal, medical and work history. Smith told police he was unemployed, Arcuri said Smith's wife told police that he worked at some kind of a sleep therapy place.
Smith did not appear to have any criminal history in the area, Arcuri said.
The potential for a tragedy on par with the Aurora, Colo., shootings was "definitely" there Saturday night, Arcuri said.
After he had gotten his Maxpedition waist pack past a Regal Cinema manager who didn't see a zippered compartment, Smith went into the theater where The Dark Knight Rises -- the same movie that was playing during the Aurora shootings -- had a 10 p.m. showing.
No one else was in the theater when Smith sat down in the middle of the back row, Arcuri said.
"Where he was sitting, he had the tactical advantage," Arcuri said. "He had targets to the left, to the right, and straight ahead."
While the manager had let Smith through, off-duty Westlake police officer Jeremiah Bullins grew suspicious of Smith and followed him into the theater. When he spotted Smith in the back row, Smith had removed the bag from his waist and placed it on the floor.
Bullins asked Smith if he could search the bag and Smith agreed. That's when Bullins opened the zippered compartment and found a loaded 9MM Glock semiautomatic handgun, two additional fully loaded magazines, and three knives. A fourth knife was found elsewhere on Smith.
Also in the bag, Arcuri said, were a flashlight, medicated bandages that help clot blood, and a capsule that is dropped in fresh water to make it safe to drink.
Oh, and it also sounds just like my mancave with the guns and bullets... I don't have a gas mask though so I guess this guy was a mass murderer and not a EDC/survivalist/prepper like me.
WE NEED MORE GUN CONTROL!
Wow, a 37 year old guy on blood pressure medication, shocking .
I hate how these stories get spun into some fantastical yarn.
The guy had a pistol and a couple of spare magazines. A few boxes of ammunition at home and a couple of prescriptions in the bathroom.
So this somehow translates into drug addled lunatic mass shooter?
I wonder if police officers that get injuries on the job and have to enter pain management programs have their firearms confiscated. But I kid! Of course not.
It is a picture perfect example of yellow journalism. But yellow journalism is now 90+% of the news so people don't really consider it sensationalism or inaccurate or defamatory. It amazes me how they go after the owner of Chik-Fil-A for simply having an opinion and exercising his First Amendment right, to financially damage him and to shut him up, bullying tactics, but they let the media get away with character assassinations on a daily basis. With their willing accomplices in law enforcement.