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When is ripping off okay?

Discussion in 'General EDC Discussion' started by LivingUpNorth, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. pipey

    pipey Loaded Pockets

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    I think what gets me is that some members on here are very pally with jon and to that extent trash any company that john has had problems with. Maxped havent caused me probs hence i would still buy their products. I personally have had probs with 5.11 but would still advise people that i still buy stuff off them. Certain people on here keep advising people that maxped are rubbish and shouldnt buy their products. If i went on here telling people dont buy from this company their no good believe me there would be people telling me the opposite. The people who have a problem with maxped keep harping on about it ! Well i think weve all got the message let it go. Same as the same old names pick you up for your spelling or grammar who cares as long as you can understand them. Too many on here full of their own opinions and too far up themselves. Ps first amendment dont count here as i live in the uk ! No sharp pointy things and nothing that goes remotely bang
     
    Last edited by pipey, Apr 21, 2014
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  2. tmedina

    tmedina EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. Whether or not you have the 1st amendment in your country or not - I certainly don't intend to force you to change your views. Likewise, spend your money where you like, how you like.

    But I think you're living in a fantasy if you think your irritation is going to change the willingness of anyone else to bash a product, or a company, for whatever reason. And the sooner you realize that, the better your blood pressure will be.

    And lastly, although I am not a grammar Nazi, or a spelling Fascist, I will point out that improving either, or both, helps other people to actually understand what you're trying to say. Especially since this is a written medium and all of your thoughts, feelings, and opinions are being conveyed strictly by text.
     
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  3. FL Woods Bum
    • In Omnia Paratus

    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    @ pipey

    I guess over here we expect more from companies and have no issues voicing our dissatisfaction when a company :censored: all over our community. Jon may own this forum, but we are all members and when a company comes here, then acts the way the owner of Maxpedition did, he is doing it to all of us, not just Jon. That's what it means to be a part of a community. Perhaps we have different views on what community means I guess. As a consumer, I support communities that stand up to companies to force them to listen more and trample less. Thus, I support this community. That being said, I am a man of free will, and don't mouth "a line". My issues with Maxpedition are spelled out in this thread many times. Those statements are my own.
     
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  4. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    The only time I can think of when it's even remotely okay to do something like that, is when it's personal.

    Guy owns a company, he rips off your design, you have a similar company, he comes out with a new design that is his.... Screw him. Payback time.
     
  5. vonlichenstein

    vonlichenstein Loaded Pockets

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    It just strikes me as hard to determine if a company is trying to make a product available to an otherwise unreachable market, or trying to get in on the profits of the design/demand for the design. Profit is always going to be a part of business decisions (it is a business decision after all). A business isn't going to dedicate its entire efforts for the good of creativity or the industry, at the end of the day the business owner has to eat too.

    For example, assuming Mystery Ranch did not patent their designs. Mystery Ranch packs are RIDONKULOUSLY marked up in my locality (70% more expensive than in the US). That puts it out of reach of a lot of consumers here (let's not go into how value of a product is assessed by a consumer). If a factory or small company in China starts churning out cheaper versions of the product, with some changes (say pockets are shifted, or MOLLE in a slightly different location and no MR logo), is that unethical?

    How about the many variations of the ka-bar, at different price points? (Not saying that ka-bar is the originator of the design, just that I've seen so darn many knife companies producing similar variations of that design). Are they "embracing a revolutionary, possibly industry-changing idea while adding one's own unique refinements" or getting in on the profits because the design and history behind the design drives sales?

    Or the many variations of the 3 day assault pack (not the MR version, the blackhawk/tactical tailor/eagle industries/too many more to list)? Again, I'm assuming the design was not patented.

    I get that some people are passionate about the brands/people behind the products, and I think I understand why they're so passionate about it. Personally, I'm willing to pay a somewhat higher price for quality for certain products, but if there is a reasonably priced alternative of acceptable quality (even if it is a knock off), and if I think the original product manufacturer isn't a small business who'd suffer for my choice to buy the knock off, then my finances (or more often, the lack thereof) make the decision for me.
     
  6. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Thing is, there's no such thing as an altruistic company trying to make a product available to an otherwise unreachable market. No one ever ripped off a product to make it available to those who otherwise couldn't afford it by.... making a cheap as Hell rip-off of it?? Yeah, ah.... No.

    Can't afford a pricey backpack? Buy something functionally similar from a different brand, with a different design and a lower price-tag. Not as though it's either the hideously expensive item or nothing at all. And not just with packs.
     
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  7. vonlichenstein

    vonlichenstein Loaded Pockets

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    Ah you phrased it better than I did.
     
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  8. pipey

    pipey Loaded Pockets

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    If you want to see rippng off on a grand scale then look at AIRSOFT CLUB s site in hong kong where everything loiks authentic but in fact most are copies. Prob get away with it cos its hard to do anything about it due to location.
     
  9. twogunmojo

    twogunmojo Banned

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    everybody does it...movie companies are the worst...dantes peak vs. volcano...deep impact vs armageddon...

    the question imho especially when it comes to gear is where is the line to be drawn...the topo designs day pack in all black looks remarkable similar to the goruck shadow ruck...i sold my tom bihn smart alec in order to buy a kifaru urban zippy because to my way of thinking the urban zippy is the bag the smart alec wants to be but i doubt you could make a case in court that one is a close enough copy of the other to get an injunction to stop production...
     
  10. FL Woods Bum
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    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    China does not generally recognize any type of Intellectual Property or Patent laws, so they freely and openly copy whatever they can. Anyone who has done business in China knows exactly what I am talking about. The Chinese Govt, and other businesses "as a whole", like to force companies to "show all their cards" before they let you do business in China. And then the promptly copy all your "cards" while you are in the bathroom. It's quite a racket... A quick read up on the High Speed Rail Fiasco back in 2010 will provide a blaring example of how China brought in big companies for a small rail project (with promises of big projects if it worked out) and then promptly stole the technology, then used it to compete against those same companies in the rest of the world. "Burn me once". ;)
     
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  11. Tixx

    Tixx Loaded Pockets

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    But our companies being dumb enough to fall for it or greedy enough kinda deserve it. Taking jobs away from Americans.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
     
  12. FL Woods Bum
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    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    I am talking about American (and other nationality) companies that go into China to do business in China. Not companies going to China to make products, so not taking jobs away from Americans, quite the opposite actually.

    And, I won't get into a debate over it, but the blame for jobs going offshore has just as much to do with Unions in this country pressing for more than their due as it does greedy companies. In the end "GREED" is definitely to blame overall.
     
  13. Tixx

    Tixx Loaded Pockets

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    Actually our very own General Electric was a master pioneer of outsourcing. As well as the cause of 6 super fund sites. Ecoimagination! Obliterate the environment. :)

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
     
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  14. FL Woods Bum
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    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    As I said, I am not going to debate you on the subject of off-shoring. It's one of those topics that is rarely discussed in a rational sense as it has personal implications. That being said, and back on topic, the companies I was talking about were not off-shoring, their American workers were actually doing the work in China.
     
  15. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Hell, there was a Chinese company that blatantly ripped off the BMW X5 design. BMW went through the lengthy and complicated process of suing the other company in China. The rip-off was absolutely blatant. Even Stevie Wonder could see it. The Chinese judge couldn't though. He declared it looked nothing like the X5. BMW lost, and the judge revealed himself to be a worthless, corrupt, piece of human filth.

    Welcome to China's legal system.

    The nice thing about being a small company.... Not having to do business with such an utterly disgusting nation as China. They don't just ignore intellectual property rights, the laugh at and spit on it.
     
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  16. MTFatboy
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    MTFatboy Loaded Pockets

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    This indirectly underscores the dilemma that has brought up this thread. Having cooperatively enforced intellectual property laws in the US and other Western nations, we have legal definitions of when "ripping off" becomes criminal. Conversely, as long as a product includes enough differences that copyright and patent laws have not been violated, ripping off will be a fact of our market whether we like it or not, and it will succeed whenever marketing or price makes the rip-off more attractive to consumers. Our capitalist philosophy includes at its core the principle of free and fair competition. My point is that sometimes ripping off is essential to fair competition. Sometimes it stifles it. It depends on who is ripping off, how much of the design is ripped off, and why it is ripped off.
     
  17. pipey

    pipey Loaded Pockets

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    Theyve got a blatant rip off on 5.11 hrt desert boots right down to the logo's
     
  18. FL Woods Bum
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    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    Yeah, I see TONS of knives coming out of there now copied all the way down to the logos (cold steel and extreme ratio are big ones). If you ever want to see some of what's coming in as "fakes" or "clones", check out DHGATE's or DX's websites.
     
  19. SAKplumber
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    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Funny you should say that. I like diggs pics for their content, but usually I don't give them a like because I don't like the filters and stuff. But when its got gear I like, I like it :)
     
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  20. indigo_wolf

    indigo_wolf AKA Breezy

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    It's all about PR and "spin" :stomp:



    ATB,
    Sam