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What Does Do Not Modify Mean???

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by bsquared, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. bsquared

    bsquared Empty Pockets

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    in legal context, after you've defended yourself lethaly, i've heard the angle that to have modified your stock pistol can be used against you in court...along the lines of "he was preoccupied with his firearm & was anxious to use it". anyone have thoughts on that? is it accurate? if so, to what degree? the grip i put on my xm is nice & makes it much more grippable...is that incriminating? what about lasers? tactical lights? that perfect iwb hoster? if i had a spyderco on me in a kydex sheath & a mercharness when i shot a bg? there are a lot of mods that are useful & make a firearm & other weapons more potent & deployable & isn't that the point? lethality & accesability? it is a weird concept to me, but as a court play, where those in sway are not necessarily in the same train of thought of edcers, what's the real risk?
     
  2. solocanoe

    solocanoe Empty Pockets

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    take a force on force class - that's my BEST answer. Hear it from real instructors - right where you are.

    if you take a class like a front-site...or Ayoob's courses...you'll find something in your area...these folks work closely with law enforcement, designing a course that will help you do SO much more than just "hit the 10 ring" ...mine even had a DA speak at it!

    they teach you how to communicate before (if you can) -- during -- and after a use of lethal force in a way that cuts thru all of the guessing about who's gonna say what to you.... for doing this...or not doing that...etc...

    I took one last year - 3 days - ...less than the cost of a new pistol...and worth TWICE what I paid. when you get stuff first hand...it's really nice. ;D
     
  3. Cynt
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Cynt Loaded Pockets

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    Also recommend ProArms podcast, check out ep 22 to be specific. Ayoob is one of the hosts, good stuff.

    Lights - Identify your target, but laywers can spin anything. :thumbsdown:
    Either way shooting someone is not good for personal finances. :slap:

    Plenty of ways to get info out there, I'm not a gun owner yet, but listen to a whole load of GRRN podcasts and am a NRA member... go figure. :-X
     
  4. bsquared

    bsquared Empty Pockets

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    safe bet that shooting someone is not good for personal finances...i believe the saying is that "every bullet fired has a lawyer attached"...but dealing with that is better than being dead.
     
  5. Cynt
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Cynt Loaded Pockets

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    Well being dead is good for personal finances, so it's not saying much! :evilgrin: Especially since you can't buy edc gadgets when your gone!

    Judged by 12 than carried by 6. It's true.
     
  6. JonSidneyB
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    That is not always true. I didn't lose anything financially in the courts. I think most legitimate shootings don't have legal problems but there are exceptions.
     
  7. bsquared

    bsquared Empty Pockets

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    I would like to think that common sense & its kin prevail, but it is the exception that is troublesome.
     
  8. Underhill
    • Sponsor - Manufacturer

    Underhill Perpetually Hungry

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    Your shooting wasn't terribly recent, and it depends greatly on the state.

    I fear that your experience may be exception rather than the rule :(
     
  9. solocanoe

    solocanoe Empty Pockets

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    I think it depends upon what info. you are being briefed on...

    for example... I get NRA mags and USCCA mags...they publish monthly MANY actual instances all over the US that illustrate the use of a concealed weapon to defend yourself.

    Certainly laws vary state to state - certainly there is a process to go thru after any CCW incident - in fact USCCA mag just ran a 3 or 4 month story line on what happens after a shooting...but there are CCW laws for a reason, that reason is defend yourself, and if you've done nothing wrong...it does work out favorably for the owner of the permit many times.

    The NRA mags quote the stats a lot...I don't read them line by line....but they have some powerful stats as to gun ownership up - crime down...CCW up, crime down, etc...

    BUT - and this is a BIG BUT - this is infois what I choose to get on a regular basis - call it "preaching to the choir" - you don't see this in the mainstream press, obviously.
     
  10. chaosmagnet
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
    • In Omnia Paratus

    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

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    The first thing to understand is that this varies wildly from State to State, and it can vary significantly from county to county.

    Assuming that it was a 100% justified shooting and you obeyed the law to the letter, you're potentially up against two different kinds of legal problems:

    You may have a local prosecutor or police department that wants to string you up. In this case, if you modified your stock pistol, you could find yourself in front of a judge, grand jury or (worst case) petit jury explaining the purpose of the modification. Depending on the jurisdiction you're in, even changing the grips or adding a weaponlight could be something that the prosecutor will try to use against you.

    The second problem you could have is the bad guy or his estate suing you in civil court. Again, any modifications made to your pistol may well be something that the bad guy's scumbag lawyer will try to use against you.

    That's the bad news. The good news is, I've never heard of a safe and legal modification ending up making a whit of difference in either case. If you live in a State with a "Castle Doctrine" law, you may even find that these sorts of legal problems go away pretty easily. If you don't live in such a State, write your legislators asking them to fix that.

    When I'm making a modification to a gun, I ask myself, "Will this have a negative impact upon safety or reliability? Will this make the gun work better for me?" If the answer to the first is no and the second is yes, it's a modification I'm willing to make. Screw the lawyers. While I hope I never have to use a gun defensively or defend myself in court, I simply don't worry about it. If the gun is safe and reliable, and it works well for me, then I'll have a better chance to survive to get to court in the first place.
     
  11. gern_blanston

    gern_blanston Loaded Pockets

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    What he said.