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Walther CCP: My Thoughts and Opinions

Discussion in 'Gear Reviews' started by WMoon, Jan 17, 2015.

  1. WMoon

    WMoon Loaded Pockets

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    Disclaimer*: below is one man's opinion, take it for what it's worth...

    Hello everyone, I wanted to put a bit of an independent perspective up of the new Walther CCP, one that you're not going to get from most of the mainstream gun bloggers, writers and youtubers. I'm not paid by Walther, unlike Hickok45 Bud's didn't send me this gun (to review? ...or to keep?), the ammunition for this test wasn't furnished by Federal, I didn't get a T&E gun because I'm not a writer and no, my youtube channel doesn't make enough money that I have to be on the bandwaggon with all the new products to drive views. So you're going to get the unbiased opinion of a frustrated man who bought a new handgun that he thought would be as good as the Walther PPQ...

    To start off with, I bought this gun from Eurooptic for the grand total of 435$ shipped with a 25$ transfer fee. That's important considering the value of the gun, as it's just slightly more than a Glock 42. Obviously I'd much rather have a 9x19 Para than a .380 any day, but the Glock may be a better choice for the money... I'll get into that in a bit...

    The gun weighs about as much as a boat anchor. For it's size, this thing's a freakin' brick. Walther claims that their "revolutionary" gas delayed blowback system calms the recoil of the 9mm down, but frankly I think that the 22oz. weight may have something to do with it.

    [​IMG]

    Other comparable handguns... well an unloaded Glock 17 weighs less, so that should tell you something. If I can pack a full size service pistol for less than the weight of your shiney new single stack slim-line Carry-Nine, your gun is too heavy. It's approaching the weight of a Kahr T9, an all steel handgun that only weighs 5oz more and is much, much more shootable, especially with +P loads, which should not under any circumstances be fired thru the CCP.

    You see, one of the big problems with the CCP is the way it functions. Basically it has a big expansion chamber mounted under the barrel that keeps the chamber locked until the bullet has exited the barrel, then as the gas pressure drops it allows the slide to move freely backward and the gun recycles. This in theory allows the CCP to have a simpler action than a Browning short-recoil system as well as a fixed barrel, which is part of the reason old Walther PPs and PPKs are so accurate for their size.

    Except it's not simpler. At least not for the end user. The Walther CCP is one of the only pistols in recent memory that requires a special tool to take the gun down because Walther had to move the operating mechanism into the space where a take-down lever would have been. This is problematic, not only is the field-strip difficult on a good day, it'd be utterly impossible to do without that tiny, exensive, proprietary tool you just lost... dang it, where did I put that little bugger...?!

    [​IMG]

    So then the question then becomes: does the gas delay work? Walther touts that the system cuts recoil by as much as 30% and makes the gun easier to rack for small and weak hands. In my experience that's just not the case. The gun requires the same amount of effort to rack as my Sig 938 or my Glock 26, and it requires FAR more effort to rack than my S&W 340 PD... since you don't have to rack a revolver... just sayin'...

    The recoil was also just as much as any other handgun. I noticed ZERO difference between the CCP and other similarly sized 9x19 handguns. So at least Walther is consistant with the current state of the art... or are they? Glock doesn't require me to have an asinine take-down proceedure for the G26, and while the P938 is a little more complex than a Glock it doesn't need a specialized tool. I also saw no real noticable difference in accuracy on the Walther vs the Glock. It was a little bit easier to shoot than the P938 because of the sights, but frankly we're picking nits at this point.

    Add to that the CCP's inability to fire +P ammunition because of the operating method and I'm calling it a dud. Walther's new handgun just didn't live up to my expectations of what a concealed 9mm should do. I want the ability, out of such a short barrel, to fire the highest velocity round I can find. I can do that with a Glock, the Sig will handle +Ps as well... but not the CCP.

    [​IMG]

    So at this point I'm officially done with the CCP, but a few more things to mention if the operating method, inability to fire +Ps, weight and stupid take down weren't enough: the safety is huge, it's easily bumped ON during recoil and swept off when you don't want it to be taken off. I guess the safety coming off isn't a huge deal, the gun's trigger has about a mile-long 10 pound pull that's simultaniously gritty, stagey, indestinct, spongy and has a massive amount of overtravel... and it doesn't reset until you fully release the trigger.

    Actually, one other thing about the trigger: unless the gun FULLY cycles with the slide coming all the way to the rear of the gun, the trigger will not be cocked for the next shot. This differs from the majority of other striker fired handguns where the trigger is cocked within the first few milimeters of slide travel. The reason this is a problem is that with weak ammunition or in a grappling fight the slide may not fully fire back or hit something during it's travel and leave you with a dead handgun.

    ...And you can't rack it off the sights using your belt or trousers either, because Walther in their infinite wisdom included polymer 3 dot sights with no cocking ledge. If my trigger is entirely dependent on the gun fully cycling, I want to be able to recock my gun in an emergency, with the sights if I'm wounded or using my off-hand for other things.

    Lastly, the magazines are just stupid. There's no other word for it. They're single stack size with a baseplate that's wide enough to cover the entire bottom of the gun. They stick out a good third of an inch on either side, effectively doubling the thickness of the otherwise slim magazines. They also have a strange zipper back construction, which literally has the texture of a cheese grater. Carried in a magazine pouch on the size, it'd be like taking the most coarse file you've ever seen and rubbing it up against your body.

    So I mentioned the Glock 42 may be a better buy for the money. Unlike the Walther CCP, it has none of the issues I just mentioned, and while it's only a .380 ACP, I'll take a .380 ACP that doesn't suck over a 9mm that does any day. I also mentioned the Kahr T9. It's kind of a rare pistol, but if you can find one, the T9 isn't much bigger than the CCP, and does everything the CCP does better than the Walther. Even if you wind up going with the P9 or any of the smaller Kahrs, you're still going to get, IMHO a better pistol than the Walther CCP, and Kahr's budget line handguns will be cheaper than the Walther.

    I sold my Walther CCP within 8 hours of picking it up from my FFL. Normally I'd give the handgun some time, but it really was THAT bad. Before I started this writeup I mentioned I'm not getting kickbacks from Walther, I'm not making money off ad revenue, I'm not getting guns for free from Buds, ect. Now you know why. Basically the Walther CCP sucks. I wish Walther had thought the gun out a little more because I happen to like Walther, but I expect sales of this gun to peter out and die once the mainstream gun-culture becomes intellectually honest about these pistols.

    Until such time, however, I expect we'll see a number of very positive reviews from the T&E youtuber advertisers and the guys who get their guns from Buds... and we really do want to take a quick moment to thank our ammo sponsors...
     
    silver2478, kikaida, Stutz and 6 others like this.
  2. Capn

    Capn Empty Pockets

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    Will, thanks for the time & effort to make your experience available to all of us. Your write-up left me with the impression the marketeers at Walther must have overwhelmed the engineers, a not uncommon occurrence these days.

    Think I'll stick with my 1911s, Glocks, and revolvers. Besides, it leave more money for great knives! :)
     
  3. hawkeye180

    hawkeye180 Loaded Pockets

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    All of those things you mentioned, plus the safety means I will stick with my phenomenal Walther PPS. Incredibly thin, concealable, controllable, everything I want in a carry gun.
     
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  4. Chocula

    Chocula Loaded Pockets

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    Thanks for the review! I was looking at this model and appreciate your lack of ambiguity.
     
  5. BlueTrain

    BlueTrain Loaded Pockets

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    Nice review, even if the gun wasn't. Sometimes I think gun makers have lost their way when it comes to guns meant to be carried concealed. But their customers are partially responsible. All the gun makers do is try to make things that sell, whether or not the buyers actually used them for what buy them for.

    I think you've already pointed out some of the shortcomings that I would notice. For instance, why do magazines have to have a wide bottom? It makes carrying a second magazine awkward. I don't think I'd notice the difference in the weight myself, based on comparing two guns that I have that are about the same size but which are several ounces apart in weight. Recoil? I've never fired an automatic pistol that was "painful," although I've fired ones that were a real handful when you touched off a round. Magnum revolvers are not necessarily that painful either, although the muzzle blast is usually something else.

    In the past there were lots of perfectly delightful, wonderfully made small pistols, nearly all of which were in either .32 or .380 ACP, both of which are now apparently considered totally inadequate for any purpose. They tended to be fairly heavy, too, also by today's standards. Now prospective buyers want a sixteen-ounce pistol that they will take to the range and run a hundred-rounds through every weekend. Otherwise you're not adequately "trained." People never used to do that. Maybe that's why everyone complains about the current crop of guns.

    I've fired a Kahr and found it to be a good choice, although I'm sure lots of people don't like the DAO concept. Nicely made, too, but on the expensive side by my standards. My ideal small pistols included the pre-war "pocket" .380 from Colt and the more recent Government .380. Not faultless but close.
     
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  6. Domain

    Domain Loaded Pockets

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    I'm curious about the width of the CCP compared to a Shield, or glock 26. Size wise, which gun is it more related to? How does it compare to the PPS?
     
  7. BlueTrain

    BlueTrain Loaded Pockets

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    I got excited when the new Remington 9mm came out but since then, I've learned not to be. I've owned so many really, really nice guns that it's hard to be pleased with anything new. But not everything is bad.

    Of the features that new guns have, I think the most worthwhile and least mentioned are the finishes. I've had guns, nice, beautifully finished guns, seemingly rust just from being looked at. That's probably the most underappreciated features of Glocks.
     
  8. WMoon

    WMoon Loaded Pockets

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    It's thicker than a Shield, thinner than a Glock. Really it's about like a Kahr with grips on it. You wouldn't initially suspect the pistol to be wide, but the grip is portly, it flares out dramatically to try and make it fit the hand better, and while the ergos are certainly appreciated, it doesn't adequately offset the myriad of other complaints I have against the pistol.
     
  9. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    The Kahr has such clean lines!
     
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  10. BlueTrain

    BlueTrain Loaded Pockets

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    I read that Remington is still trying to make a go of it with their new 9mm but Remington's website makes no mention of it.
     
  11. WMoon

    WMoon Loaded Pockets

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    I wouldn't trust my life to the R51. I don't really care whether Remington redesigned the pistol or not, I don't trust the Pederson lock. I think it's fundamentally flawed.
     
  12. Wishoot

    Wishoot Loaded Pockets

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    Excellent review! Thank you.

    A mid- size 9mm that can't shoot +p is a no-go for me. Too many other options out there that are proven performers AND can shoot anything you feed them (SR9c, M&Pc, Glock 19). That and the fact that it's just about the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

    I'm surprised Walther agreed to slap their name on this.
     
  13. WMoon

    WMoon Loaded Pockets

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    I'm more suprised that anyone would compromise their integrity to help Walther advertise and sell the CCP by calling it a decent gun.
     
  14. Low_Speed

    Low_Speed Loaded Pockets

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    I must say that I haven't fired this pistol. I've held it. I do trust your thoughts on firing it and the take down of the pistol but everything else is questionable. The weight isn't too bad. Your comparisons to other pistol weights seem to be exaggerated. I guess I don't notice the difference because I carry full size pistols all day. My EDC pistol is the Gen 1 PPQ. Also, I have read nothing that says that you can't use +P rounds in this gun. I can't find it in any other review or Walther CCP manual. Can you let us know where you got that information from?
     
  15. BlueTrain

    BlueTrain Loaded Pockets

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    The manual explicitly says not to use +P+ ammunition but only warns that the use of +P ammunition will cause more wear and may require more frequent service. But judging from all the red-letter warning in gun manuals these days, one could be forgiven for thinking they're really too dangerous to even handle. Anyway, I think all manufacturers caution against using +P+ ammunition, possibly because there is no industry standard for what constitutes +P+ pressures.

    I haven't had a chance to handle one myself but there doesn't seem to be that much to recommend it over the P99 or the PPQ, except perhaps in the price.
     
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  16. Pfovard

    Pfovard Empty Pockets

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    I fully agree about the trigger being disappointing. If it were smooth, the long travel wouldn't be so bad. The "softcoil" system actually works but only delays the muzzle flip so it doesn't recoil so sharply. Shooting it side by side with my 9mm PPS you can feel the difference in recoil and the CCP is softer for sure though I don't mind the recoil on the PPS at all. The CCP's slide really is much easier and smoother to rack than the PPS. My wife has trouble working the slide on many pistols but has no trouble with the CCP. As far as the +p ammo, the manual does state that it's okay to use but will of course be harder on the gun. I get the impression that some +P+ may even be okay but Walther can't recommend it because there are no standards for +P+ pressures. I really like the pistol for the most part. I still carry the PPS but my wife is using the CCP. I've never accidentally activated or deactivated the safety so I don't see any issue with it. I'm not sure how it could happen during recoil since the safety is above your thumb unless you hold your thumb right on the slide while firing.
     
  17. BlueTrain

    BlueTrain Loaded Pockets

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    I don't care for the hooked trigger guard but that's really a styling feature to me. I don't know if anyone uses a grip with the fingers of the off hand placed on the trigger guard.

    Let me say a few words now about recoil. I realize first that a heavy recoiling handgun makes it harder to get back on target but I don't think that should be a real issue, unless you have a target that's cooperating and is standing perfectly still for you. Some smaller caliber pistols have pretty sharp recoil, like the Makarov, which is not exactly a lightweight pistol either. A Colt .45 automatic has what might be called a heavy recoil but I wouldn't call it sharp. I've mentioned before no doubt how a lightweight Colt Officer's ACP is a real handful to fire but even it isn't that bad to shoot. But when you move over to magnum revolvers, it's a different matter.

    The .357, .41 and .44 magnums have a terrific blast when you fire them, although the recoil may or may not be all that bad, depending on the load. You just can't get something for nothing. Traditionally with revolvers, heavier barrels were a way of handling sharp recoil. But you can't do anything like that with a pistol, not without a lot of modifications. So I guess anything that reduces recoil is a good thing. Walther won't be the first to have something like this.

    I've had a couple of pistols that were or could be made double-action-only. In fact, I have one now. I rather like that feature and just like many other things, there were pistols made before WWII that were double-action-only. It may take getting used to but so does everything else. You notice the trigger more with a DAO pistol and the same is true for a DA-SA setup. There may be differences between different pistols, too, so if you have a chance to try out more than one pistol of a given model, you could at least try out the trigger if they let you.

    I wish I could afford to buy every new pistol that came out but I haven't been doing too badly so far.
     
  18. jdindadell

    jdindadell Loaded Pockets

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    Glad I read this review. I was considering the ccp as I have a ppq m2 and really like it. The trigger is very nice and has a short crisp reset. Since the ccp does not share that feature I am not interested at all. Sounds like the ok keltec pf9 I scored for 225 will stay. It has the undesirable dao style trigger with a ghost reset click halfway through the trigger release, but is is light and compact and has fired every time. Plus it comes apart easily.
     
  19. Pfovard

    Pfovard Empty Pockets

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    I've had my CCP for a few months now and just picked up another since my wife has been carrying the first one I bought. One thing I did not originally notice is that the trigger pull is different with a round in the chamber. I have some 9mm snap caps that I practice with sometimes. The trigger pull with a round in the chamber is much more crisp with a short take up. Without a round in the chamber the take up feels longer and rough. I have no idea why this would be but I have confirmed this to be the case. Because of this I can now fully recommend the CCP as the trigger was my only gripe. I own a PPQ which I would of course say has a better trigger and shorter reset but I actually never notice the long reset while shooting it and I really like how this trigger breaks. The other complaint I see a lot is the takedown. I don't know why the takedown tool is made the way it is as it can hardly catch the clip it's supposed to lift. I don't use the Walther tool but instead use a little flathead screwdriver which the owners manual also suggests. I really like that this gun feels like a mini PPQ. Feels great in my large hands and in my wife's very small hands. I will add that this is heavy for a little gun and feels very solid. I like the extra heft and I'm sure some will not but I carried a ppk/s for years and this is definitely lighter than that. Love this little gun.
     
  20. Jared3288

    Jared3288 Empty Pockets

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    Just recently acquired a Walther CCP and just really put it through its paces today and had a lot of misfires and smoke stack issues along with the shell not ejecting and I don't know why any one have any ideas or heard of this issue before?!? If so I'm gonna get rid of this thing...bought it as an every day carry and that's not what I consider reliable!