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Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by RogerStenning, Jun 17, 2018.
Heh. "if THE Roger". I like this, I am, indeed, unique
Any update? I'm very keen to learn what the final kit contains and what size it has, as well as how it will be carried (belt?).
Amazingly, we're still discussing (read: politely arguing without shouting) this problem. It's largely a matter of cost versus utility versus stowed size versus where it'll be carried on the person. Being a small team means we buy our own kit, which is obviously a major factor. I suspect we aren't going to get this sorted until we're right down to the wire, so to speak.
I don’t know if these would be something you were interested in or not, but thought of this link when I came across them.
Thanks for the idea, but shipping (assuming that provider ships internationally, which is not stated on the site) from the USA to the UK is a - ah. OK. Make that "female hound of an expensive task", then So, not, I suspect, a starter, there, sorry, but again, thanks for the thought
But it gives you an idea that a seamstress could whip up on the cheap.
Ooooh! IWB holsters....
BTW: Do you plan to purchase kit components to test, like: different TQs and try them out, like how quick to deploy and apply to casualty?
FYI: I purchased myself SWAT-T, CAT Gen 7 and SOFT-T Wide TQs and tried them on a family member (leg and arm) and on myself. I've found that all are fine to deploy/apply to another person, but for self-application I can only handle the CAT TQ one-handed within 15 seconds (max. 30 seconds). Also CAT TQ was no problem at airport security as it's all plastic, while the SOFT-T with it's metal windlass raised questions ...
Similar is true for gauze (compresed vs. folded or Z); currently i'm evaluating medical sheers (to remove clothing) vs. belt-cutting hooks.
For pressure bandage/wound dressing I tried OLAES, Israeli and URIEL. And picked URIEL for EDC due to it's small size, also it's not ideal for deeper wounds when applied as one-and-only - OLAES is better as it comes with extra gauze with the "cost" of a larger package. Now, someone mentioned "H Bandage", which is now on my soon-to-order list ... and the challenge continues
So, for me, there is no "perfect" EDC trauma kit - but different options. I use most of the ones I tried, also in different lines (on-person/pocket, near person/bag, backpack) depending on time, location and my gut feeling.
Those are parts of the problem too. We're working on 'em. That's about all I can say at this juncture.
OK, these are the items I've recommended to my team; it's a short list of three items, which is a trade off between Immediate Action treatment, capability, affordability, carriage, and utility of multi-injury (that is, use on more that one kind of injury, not more than one injury) use.
Tactical burn dressing military "Water Jel" 6510-01-243-5897
6" Israeli bandage self-tensioning format FFD
SWAT-T stretchable rubber tourniquet
The total items cost is a shade over thirty pounds from a single UK source.
Consideration was given to further items, but cost and carriage were an issue. Given the types of event we are due to support, it is felt that if there's a sucking chest wound, the chances are better than even that plastic bags will be immediately available for impromptu use as chest seals, until such time as ambulances might arrive. Likewise, haemo-control agents such as Celox were considered, but discounted due to response times for ambulances, and the use of dressings and tourniquets in that time frame. Vents and haemo-control agents will, however, be suggested strongly for our vehicle kits.
These three items can make a difference, though, and can be carried in trouser or jacket pockets without too much concern over bulk issues.
The packaging from the Israeli bandage can be pressed into service for a sucking chest wound. A small roll of gorilla tape (or its UK equivalent) in everyone’s edc can secure it on three sides. It’s a multitasker so very worth the space.
Good ideas - thanks
... and you may consider carrying alcohol wipes (swaps) - to clean the body fluids from the chest before the tape will stick to it. They are available in single servings and are usually less the size of a credit card and maybe 2-3 times in thickness.
What about medical or trauma scissors? There are smaller and/or cheaper models available to cut through clothing (including heavier cotton like jeans).
BTW: Israeli and Oleas bandage packages have been reported to sometimes fail by getting punctured (unintentionally), loosing vaccum and maybe sterility, after a while being carried. Please have your team frequently check for those - and report if you found it to be an issue, or if everything is fine after n missons.
Thanks for adding/mentioning the Water Jel 4"x4" - I considered some burn relief but have not yet decided what to add to my trauma kit ...
I know you want to keep the minimum for doing the maximum - it's always a balancing act which many of us will never master, maybe control
P.S.: A photo of the content and the kit plus belt-mounted kit would be highly appreciated.
The priority use here is to carry the essential kit with which to keep people alive, so as to give the professionals (ambulance & paramedic personnel) time to get to the scene to do everything they do to continue to save lives. Yes, swabs, scissors, are useful, but not immediately needed to the job of blood loss control or bracing injured limbs (unless they're complicated, but that's another story). In any case, we carry full kits in the vehicles, but those are, as previously mentioned, often some distance from an incident site, so we have to go with what can be carried (amongst the other gubbins we carry on the job) and deployed immediately.
I guess I understand what you aim for and I appreciate the dedication, time and thought process you put into this - and sharing it with us.
My assumption would be that the (civilian) casualties don't wear body armor, so they will typically have a different trauma scenario then armed forces have. So the likelihood that the torso (simply because it's the largest part of the body) may get impacted, is at least the same as the limbs.
For blood loss you carry the Israeli bandage.
Let's assume you can "rip off" the clothing of the casualty and therefore can go without a trauma sheer (I carry one that's about 10 centimeters long and weights 22 grams).
For chest/lung punctures you may need to improvise a chest seal by using the plastic wrapping of the Israeli or SWAT-T (as mentioned by nursetim 40) - which requires two small additions:
some type of sticky tape (medical or Gorilla) and
something to get the body fluid off of the injured person skin (can be any kind of clothing or alcohol swaps).
Both additions (1 meter sticky tape & 2 alcohol swaps) weight 19 grams and are about 5x5 centimeter. Something your team members will barely notice regarding weight and size carrying it, IMHO.
In addition you may consider a pair of Nitrile medical gloves (did I miss this in your list?) - which would add another 9 grams in size M.
Up to you of course, but I think for less then 30 grams you get three very valuable and useful tools that are hard to makeshift and enhance the type of medical first responder service you can provide and protect your team.
BTW: Did I mention that a photo of the kit (content) and how it is carried would be appreciated Thanks!
Weight isn't the only issue, mass is a major one as well. Given we're wearing slacks-style trousers and a blazer jacket, bulky kit is a real problem, so it has to be as small and unobtrusive as possible. I actually carry a Leatherman Raptor set of folding EMT shears; they're expensive compared to others, but they're quality bits of kit, and IMHO worth the money. That's a personal choice, of course.
The team-recommended kit is a compromise, but it's the essentials that count. Also, nitrile gloves are carried anyway, can't think why I failed to mention that before.
I'll get photos of the kit when I get a chance.
@RogerStenning I hope you & your team had a chance to buy and carry this small pocket trauma kit and we would love to hear "feedback from the field".
Ah, did I mention that a picture would be nice?
I still think Ankle FAKs could work. Just stick any larger items in your blazer pockets.
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I had been following this thread with interest in something for personal edc and know the OP already found a solution, but thought I would share mine in case anyone else was following for the reasons I had been.
I use an elastic rifle magazine holder that can be mounted on the belt or IWB using included velcro.
I am able to fit a tourniquet, mini trauma dressing, hemostatic gauze, vaseline gauze which can be used similar to a chest seal and gloves. I recognize that it is a compromise. The trauma dressing is not as substantial as some others and doesn’t have a pressure/occlusive device. The hemostatic gauze is only two feet vice 4yds. But it is better in the aspect that it is small enough I will carry it.