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Trijicon inc. in trouble for helping soldiers see more then just the enemy

Discussion in 'The Breakroom' started by Boy SureFire, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    Well, you can't hardly blame them :)

    And that might explain why Muslim snipers are such poor shots, they must use a crescent as an aiming point!
     
  2. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    Funny, the Israeli Defense Force uses Trijicon sights and has no issue with them: http://doubletapper.blogspot.com/2010/01/trijicon-rifle-scope-bible-code-in-idf.html And if Muslims are offended by them, too bad: I'm offended when Muslims strap bombs to women, children and the disabled and blow them up. I'm offended when Muslims cut off the heads of people just trying to help them. I'm offended when Muslims hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings, or load RIBs up with explosives and drive them into the side of US Naval Ships, or blow up US embassy's and other buildings around the world.

    The difference is that if I'm offended, I deal with it, I don't claim victim status and whine like CAIR does.

    I'm not Christian - and I wonder why you think you're qualified to speak for everyone who isn't? You certainly don't have permission to speak for me, sparky.

    I wonder if I could order one with a custom quote like Psalms 91:5? A whole new customization option for my evil rifles.

    Not only do they get to keep religious books (not just Bibles) the Chaplains will give them books (free, purchased by the US Taxpayer)...and their dog tags have a RELIGION indelibly stamped into stainless steel! The horror!
     
  3. muskrat72

    muskrat72 Loaded Pockets

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    Ok, I am sure that a moderator will agree with me but the use of "Muslim" instead of terrorist needs to stop. True Muslims are not bloodthirsty and I am sure that there are some on the board so you are indirectly offending them.

    Back on point....

    The rules were set by the government, the company secretly or outwardly defied the rules thus they need to lose their contract.
     
  4. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    The 'terrorists' aren't complaining: The Council on American-Islamic Relations is.

    And those sights have been purchased by the Government and inspected by Government QA inspectors for decades with no problems noted. While the First Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States says in part "...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ..."

    Now if some trooper has a problem, he should be free to remove it. Otherwise, it's not an issue.
     
  5. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    Darned shame, too: The Canadians got a Tim Hortons in Afghanistan, why can't the US get an In-n-out at Bagram?
     
  6. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    :iagree: ...

    :iagree: Some QA heads are going to roll over this (figuratively speaking)...I would start looking for new job if it were me who gave the OK on these.
     
  7. bpa

    bpa Loaded Pockets

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    I don't speak for you. People can agree or disagree as they choose.
    There is a difference in getting along with the majority and resisting discrimination or intolerance. Most minorities know where the line is.
    And I don't whine - I speak up. Jews have paid the price of silent and indifference for centuries. That ends in our time. It is worth remembering that threats to one group are threats to all groups. I feel the obligation to defend the religious rights of members of all faiths - it not only protects them, it protects me.

    How about Joel 4:10
    Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears: let the weak say I am strong. (Jerusalem Bible translation)

    I think it splendid that soldiers have their choice (presumably) of spiritual texts - it gives them comfort. The dogtag notation is intended to protect individual religious rights.
     
  8. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    You stated an absolute...that non-Christians are offended. I am not a Christian, and I find it offensive that you would speak for me. The problem with absolutes is that it only takes one case to prove them wrong.

    And history has proven, time and again, that those who beat their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning hooks wind up plowing and pruning for those that didn't.

    As I said, if a soldier has a problem with the notations (which have been there for 30 years) they can cover or remove them. That CAIR has a problem with them bothers me not at all, and sanctimonious mewling about a corrupted understanding of the US Constitution doesn't change that.
     
  9. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    :shrug: instead of this epic waste of money all involved should agree to settle, and donate the money toward the poor, less fortunate, and undeserved people of the world :roof: . I for one feel ashamed that we as humane beings would allow people to suffer while we stand by buying sand paper... Right now people in Haiti are searching for their loved ones... Who do you want help?
     
  10. phill

    phill Loaded Pockets

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    When this guy thinks its a bad idea to have them on the scopes im happy to agree with him:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus

    He certainly knows more about the consequences and what is at stake here than anyone else in the thread.

    However i have to add im constantly disturbed in discussions such as these where people look at the actions of the coalition, such as Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and something as small as this, then proceed to compare them to terrorists as if we stoop almost but not quite to their level then we are in the right because we are slightly less wrong.

    The War on Terror is a war of public relations, even if 999 out of 1000 potential converts think nothing of it, that 1 in 1000 will be strapping bombs to themselves and walking into market places at peak times.

    The quotations added nothing to the capability of the scopes but they were illegal under federal law, unwanted under military policy and potentially hindered the efforts and endangered the lives of allies in the field. I just cant see how anyone could argue in favour of the inclusion of the scripture references unless they havent even remotely considered the stakes in play.
     
  11. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    I think Muslim terrorists should clean off the blades of their knives in between slitting throats. It's offensive when two individuals have their blood mixed in such a fashion.

    After all, we give them trials when they get caught. We provide them with food and medicine as Prisoners of War. I think it's more than reasonable to insist that they clean off their blades before they butcher their Prisoners of War without trials, consideration, and even without basic human decency.

    Obviously in the long run, they're going to win since they are waging a real war; while we're busy not trying to offend them.

    200 years from now, whichever civilization is the dominant Super Power, historians will debate why the insanity of appearing to be offensive was an issue on the American side of the War on Terror. Some pimply-face super genius will write a 30-page paper trying to explain it. Perhaps he'll find this topic buried somewhere in some long-forgotten archive.


    At least he'll see that some folks gave a :censored: about something more important than a small grouping of letters and numbers on a piece of equipment.
     
  12. MatBlack

    MatBlack Loaded Pockets

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    Abu Ghraib wouldn't have ever surfaced if our treasonous media weren't so bent on destroying President Bush at the cost of national security.
     
  13. scríbhneoir
    • Administrator

    scríbhneoir Uber Prepared
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    Let's stay on topic--the sights. As long as folks remain pretty cool-headed, the thread can continue; it's a fine line, though.

    :peg2:
     
  14. tower
    • In Omnia Paratus

    tower Loaded Pockets

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    "Trijicon has proudly served the U.S. military for more than two decades, and our decision to offer to voluntarily remove these references is both prudent and appropriate," said Stephen Bindon...
    O0

    And tower agrees with him completely. End of story.
     
  15. phill

    phill Loaded Pockets

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    Is there an ignore function on this forum Scrib? I cannot find one and ive found it quite useful in the past when faced with posts such as these to ignore the rather obvious troll:

     
  16. Gödel_Fan

    Gödel_Fan Loaded Pockets

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    These are sage words to be heeded. The fact is that we need to be worried about the quality of the gear our soldiers use and not ridiculous things like what letters numbers and words can appear on it. I don't care if it's sacred to an obscure tribe in the Pacific islands, branded Crayola, and has obscenities etched in it, if it's the best thing then get it out there where it can save our soldiers' lives at the expense of our enemies'.

    I suppose from that angle Trijicon really had no choice; a sentimental touch isn't worth jeopardizing soldier's lives, equipment, their business etc. But I suppose Hispanic soldiers named Jesus have to censor their first name when filling out miltiary/DoD forms or putting a name placard on a pack or something. :rolleyes:

    A lot of things (including some we might appreciate here at EDCF) are traditionally made with a small touch that has a religious significance, it's just part and parcel of how that thing is assembled. The notch in a kukri or the shamrock on a set of blueprints are examples. A local man here makes custom pewter 1911 grips with a small cross in the corner in place of his initials or signature. Neither the producer nor the end user necessarily believe in, support, or represent the belief that the little quirk originates from. It's just how it's made. The idea that such ultimately trivial details must be removed at the first sight of anybody whining about it is ludicrous.

    If nothing else these small touches show care and craftsmanship and are generally indicative of quality. Most people aren't going to put such a personal thing on something they're not proud of. While it's true that we don't need the flourish to get the quality, in my view on a piece of gear it's part and parcel of knowing you're getting the real deal that's well made.

    This whole thing makes me worry that political correctness run amuck will jeopardize features soldiers need in their gear. Next, someone will protest black nonreflective coatings on the sights as racist.
     
  17. scríbhneoir
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    scríbhneoir Uber Prepared
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    Not that I'm aware of for threads. For PM, yes. But since Trijicon has made a decision, I reckon this thread has served its purpose and is now closed. Thanks.

    :peg2:
     
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