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Trijicon inc. in trouble for helping soldiers see more then just the enemy

Discussion in 'The Breakroom' started by Boy SureFire, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    Manufacture Trijicon inc. recently got put in the sights after it was discovered that they've been putting bible citations on the rifle sights they produce for the military, and this has of course started a big argument over whether Trijicon is breaking rules. I personally don't see this as an issue, but do understand that some feel very strong about their beliefs/non-beliefs. Please keep in mind that Trijicon was putting a bible citation, and not a quote. To be honest that citation to an unknowing eye could easily be mistaken for plain bar code, but that's just my 2/100 of a dollar.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-military-weapons-inscribed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794
     
  2. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    ...I'm guessing sandpaper sales are going to be the next stock market hotcake.
     
  3. VT-aroo

    VT-aroo Loaded Pockets

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    IMHO That verse on that peice of equipment kind of seems like a slogan and not really a blessing.
     
  4. tmedina

    tmedina EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Like we need another complication.

    Slogan or blessing, it doesn't take much imagination for the radical clerics to use this as "proof" we're engaged in a holy war.

    -Trevor
     
  5. fresnomacman

    fresnomacman Loaded Pockets

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    WOW... Get over it. You don't see people not eating at In-N-Out, they put references on there cups and such. They are taking it way to far.
     
  6. tmedina

    tmedina EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Different reference altogether.

    In-N-Out cups aren't mounted on rifles and carried through a predominately Islamic country.

    Mind you, the Army has gone so far as to ban pork products (in some areas) to Soldiers for fear of offending our "hosts" - and you think Christian writing on weapon sights won't raise hackles?

    -Trevor
     
  7. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    :shrug: I didn't know that, and I've eaten there... I wonder if anyone else does this too, and it seems like if someone really hates you that much, that they'll just find some other reason to hate you :( . Seems kinda pointless to always be worried about what the other guy thinks, but :luck: trying to recall all that tech (an epic waste of money/time)...I as tax payer don't care to have any of this nonsense put on my tab, also isn't the military already having money/supply issues? I could understand action if they'de put a swastika on it, but I wouldn't dare ask a soldier to go without gear for such a small reason.
     
  8. jeeves3443

    jeeves3443 Loaded Pockets

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    Ugh.

    This is obviously a touchy subject to some people, but I just don't understand and I'm usually pretty good about things like this. I can't think of anything manufactured by a Muslim country but it certainly wouldn't bother me if there were some kind of reference to the Koran slipped into the serial number of a quality product (see, AK; if manuf. by a muslim country). If that's part of what's behind the manufacturing, fine. If you do something well, be proud of how you do it. I also wouldn't be offended if my serial had 8008135 somewhere in there. If it doesn't interest you, don't look it up.

    I think that to assume our 'enemies' will be "emboldened" by the fact that religion has gotten involved (didn't THEY call a Jehad?) is an absurd and irrational exaggeration.

    I feel that this is just doing more harm than good. The potential 'snow ball effect' from potential rulings in this case are a little scary. What's next, no praying or worship of any kind because solders are government property (state) and must be separate from religion?
    Now, present a petition of solders that feel their safety (mental or otherwise) could be compromised or their abilities hampered by the presence of these references and I think I could understand, but as of now I do not.
    I think they'd have more luck going after the U.S. Mint because 'In God we Trust' is still in use.

    If you're non-christian, Athiest or otherwise and something like this does or would bother/offend you, could you please let me know somehow (PM, here, doesn't matter) I just don't see where the offense is made.
     
  9. Paddling_Man

    Paddling_Man Loaded Pockets

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    I can see how the military might have a problem relative to other "cultural sensitivities" they observe, but it is neat observation! I agree, that is sounds like more of an "Easter Egg" slogan than a religious proclamation.
     
  10. excistandreflect

    excistandreflect Empty Pockets

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    Trijicon has had those on their optics longer than they have been fielded by the military. I can remember this being talked about on the Arfcom forums 10 years ago. I don't see how it diminishes the quality of their optics or our military?
     
  11. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    If what you say is correct, then that would make the citation an inherent/preexisting design feature, and one that the military could have asked be removed long before it ever touched sand...That would mean it's the military's fault for failing to enforcing its own rules...
     
  12. bpa

    bpa Loaded Pockets

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    The whole idea is obnoxious.

    It's not only offensive to Muslims, it's offensive to any non-Christian. It's divisive, it serves no useful purpose, and violates the secular purpose of our military.

    The religious motivation strikes me as peculiar anyway - reminds me of the 1960s satirical slogan "Kill a Commie for Christ." Just substitute your choice of "other" for Commie, and it become obvious that some things haven't changed much since Vietnam...
     
  13. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    New recruits have to surrender their personal items when they arrive for Basic training. However, if they have a Bible on them, they get to keep that.

    Those hate-filled, bile-spewing, pathetic excuses for holy men already use that example of Freedom of Religion to pretend that this is a holy war. To them, anything can be twisted to make it look like a holy war.
     
  14. phill

    phill Loaded Pockets

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    Firstly, separation of church and state.

    Secondly, if soldiers want to carry a Bible, Qur'an, Torah, or a copy of The Origin of Species then that is their business. Equipment doesnt need to have references to bible quotes.

    Also its not about upsetting the enemy, its about upsetting the allies.
     
  15. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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    "offensive" is a highly subjective term, and therefore it's hard/impossible to say who gets the right to deem something offensive. Our planet is made up of many diverse cultures, and with each culture we find new ways of life. I recently finished a semester of college psychology, and have found that even the simple act of standing near someone as you talk can be considered disrespectful (eye contact, distance between individuals, and etc can/do differ from one culture to the next). If the military really saw this citation as a problem why then do they wait until becomes newsroom fodder? and why should Trijicon be blamed for expressing their right to freedom of speech. This was a preexisting design feature which for whatever reason the military left alone, and what then do you purpose be done about the large number of unites already in service?
     
  16. Boy SureFire

    Boy SureFire May The Bridges I Burn Light The Way

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  17. defloyd

    defloyd Loaded Pockets

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    Actually, I am an Atheist. While it is true I dislike having religion pushed upon me, this is kind of silly. If I had saw these JN8:12's and other codes in the serial numbers, I would just think that's part of the serial number. I'm sure some Iraqi is going to look at these serial numbers and won't make the connection, heck I bet the troops didn't even make the connection unless they were told about it. As an atheist, if I were told that my sights had a hidden religious code on it, I'd just think "Hmm, that's rather interesting."

    It's just a few letters and numbers that don't really mean anything if you don't know what they mean, but mean a lot to those that do, it's not like it's a cross or something.
     
  18. tmedina

    tmedina EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I don't know about other branches, but Soldiers are permitted to carry articles of faith around their neck as long as the articles don't show outside the uniform.

    Phill summed up my position pretty well - it isn't about the personal choice of the Soldiers themselves, but the issued gear they carry into battle.

    More to the point, I hope some knucklehead doesn't have the same point of view I do and order the sights pulled. The company should have freaking known better.

    -Trevor
     
  19. crossroads

    crossroads Empty Pockets

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    As far as religion goes, I guess you could say I'm agnostic. I don't have a problem with biblical quotes generally, and any person worth their salt shouldn't get too offended either unless it's shoved down their throat. But adding such quotes onto weapon sights which are used against those of a different religion is just stupid. It's not so much a matter that the manufacturer shouldn't have the right to do so, but the fact that it is an idiotic move which any reasonable person could foresee annoying a lot of people.
     
  20. eeph

    eeph Empty Pockets

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    Re: Trijicon inc. in trouble for helping soldiers see more then just the enemy

    It's potentially harmful, not because anti-Western extremists will have their minds changed one way or the other, but because it's another tool in the box for those extremists to radicalise more moderates. As an atheist I'd oppose religious references on issued kit, but in other circumstances I wouldn't consider it a big deal.

    That said, I suspect that no-one's really to blame here. I don't imagine there was a "no religious references" clause in the contract, because the military/DoD wouldn't have seen the need for one, and I don't imagine the manufacturer would have really thought about it, as it was an established practice. In my experience you get serial and code numbers all over military kit, so it's not really surprising that no-one in procurement had noticed.

    A lesson learned, hopefully.
     
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