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thoughts on these 3 for CCW?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by kkay, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    Okay I have 3 pistols in mind for CCW. I am strongly leaning towards a Smith & Wesson M&P compact pistol. I like it because you can reverse the mag release, and it is more ambidextrous than anything else I've found, that I like, and can pay for. The next one would be the Ruger LC9s. The 3rd choice is the Glock 26 Gen4. (my son says it's too big for CCW)

    I am a woman in my mid 50's, so please keep that in mind. The Glock 19 is fine to shoot, but pulling the slide back is tough. I do not have much experience with a pistol, and I've never cared for them. I am a great shot with a rifle, or shotgun. I used to sheet skeet a long time ago. (and hunt) I shoot left-handed, and that is one reason I've never liked pistols, as they are geared towards right handed folks most of the time, but it seems some companies are finally waking up to the fact some people want an ambidextrous gun.

    I have a friends who can go out with me and target shoot, until I feel more comfortable with whatever I decide to buy. Then I will take the class, and get the license.
     
  2. TJ S.

    TJ S. Loaded Pockets

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    Have you had a chance to shoot any of them yet?

    Personally, I'd find a range where I can rent as many as possible until I find one that I absolutely love. Every time I've done this, I ended up with a gun that I either overlooked or one that I didn't think I'd like.

    As for as a concealed firearm, you'd be surprised how much gun you can hide if you want to make adjustments to your wardrobe and style.



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  3. Stonerman33
    • The Omnia Paratus

    Stonerman33 Loaded Pockets

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    I have and frequently carry the M&P shield in 9mm. I've shot the LC9, but not the newer striker fired LC9S. The 26 I've shot frequently as its one of my dad's carry pieces.

    I prefer the glock trigger of the bunch. The Shield isn't bad, the LC9 was serviceable as well, but my least favorite of the bunch. Not sure if the LC9S uses the same trigger as the older LC9, though.

    Get your hands on a shield or other M&P and see if you're able to rack the slide. I prefer the M&P slide as the serrations are easier for me to get a good grip and rack the slide quickly.

    If manipulating the semi-autos proves problematic for you, don't rule out a nice wheel gun. My mom just picked up a nice S&W model 60 in .357 for a good price. It's only 5 shots, but .357 packs a punch, and you can always practice with .38s if you are sensitive to the recoil.


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  4. Il Duce

    Il Duce Loaded Pockets

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    Look at the Glock 43 and for a revolver the Ruger LCR in 9mm


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  5. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    <<<Have you had a chance to shoot any of them yet?>>>
    No. They are sold out of the Glock 26 Gen4. I did get to handle the S&W M&P compact though. I also saw and handled the Ruger LC9s. The Ruger was smaller than I thought it would be. I only want the pistol for CCW. We are going to have open carry around here now, but I'd rather conceal mine. I did see a Glock 27. I think it should be comparable in size to the Glock 26. They had Gen3, but no Gen4. The counter at that store was loaded up with people. I've never seen so many folks lined up like that there before. I just read this evening they are not making any more S&W M&P compacts anymore. That is a bummer. I thought I might get the M&P compact now, and then later possibly get the Ruger LC9s. (one for fall winter, and the smaller one for summer, or a back up) Stonerman, the LC9s has a different trigger than the older model. I definitely want a 9mm. I am not really into revolvers that much. My son has The Judge, I like it, but it isn't for CCW. Duce, thanks for the recommendations. I am pretty set on these three choices. My son has been bugging me about getting the CCW. I have resisted in the past. But now things are getting worse around here, and I think it is time to get some protection, for when I leave the house.
     
  6. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    I'm an M&P fan. If the trigger bothers you, apex kits exist. The only thing I don't like about them is that some have a false reset...it feels like the trigger resets before it actually does.

    I owned a 9c briefly, but it wasn't enough smaller than the full size for me to care about. It printed exactly the same, just a half an inch or so over. And I've never been made with my full size. I don't think I ever even shot it...it was one of the stupid models with a magazine disconnect and a false reset and would have had many of its internals replaced before I'd carry it anyway. So, I traded it when I decided not wasn't worth the money.

    If you're not going to put ANY money into it after you get it...keep in mind that glock sights are terrible. Otherwise, they're great guns. I just don't like how the grip feels (the width of the front strap, not the angle).

    I've never shot the ruger.

    The right answer is that you need to shoot them in addition to feeling them and then go with your gut.

    Before I bought my shield, I'd rented them a couple times and liked them okay...but I didn't shoot them well. When I finally decided to buy one, I shoot it really well for the size. At least well enough to keep around for clothing that absolutely will not conceal my full size. I'm not sure what the difference was.

    Either the 9c or the 26 would be a great choice. I lean towards the M&P line, but I can't fault anyone for going with a glock.

    You have to try them.
     
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  7. Kody Page

    Kody Page Loaded Pockets

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    moostapha's advice is great! The thing I would reccomend the most would be to get really great training from a before you make your purchase. I can't reccomend Tactical Response's "Fighting Pistol" highly enough. This class was very heavy on the mindset, tactics and skill side of carrying a gun. I REALLY wish I would have taken that class before I ever bought a gun. (I could have saved a LOT of time and money :)). They have loaner guns available and some too the people in my class were kind enough to let me shoot theirs as well.

    For what it's worth, previously I've owned a Sig Sp2022, Glock 26, M&P Shield, M&P Compact and M&P full size before I landed on the Glock 19. It is small and light enough to carry, yet it's big enough to actually fit with and shoot well. I have nothing but good things to say about the M&P's but the sizes they came in weren't quite right for me. If they made a Glock 19 sized M&P, I'd switch to it.

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
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  8. Tru7h

    Tru7h Loaded Pockets

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    As a Glock fanboy, I say TRY THEM OUT BEFORE YOU BUY.
    I just cannot stress that enough. Let your hands tell you what works for them. They can be trained to work around a weapon system, and you REALLY should do that with whatever you get, but best to start out right.

    That said, Glocks aren't the best out there for concealing. They're very thick as pistols go due to the double stack design. I also find the fact that you have to pull the trigger to take down for cleaning/inspection a design flaw.

    I do own the S&W M&P Shield. It has a great feel in the hand. It conceals much, much more comfortably. It also has a takedown latch to avoid the abovementioned trigger issue.

    My 2ยข
     
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  9. TJ S.

    TJ S. Loaded Pockets

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    I'm not a Glock guy for a number of reasons (the grip, the grip angle and the fact I can't hit a dang thing with one) but the trigger pull on takedown doesn't phase me nearly as much as some others. I don't know if it's my background or what, but I pull the trigger on everything before I break down. But that's a whole nother thread lol.



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  10. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    The trigger on the LC9s is fine, it doesn't bother me at all. There is a place not that far from here, where you can rent them on their site. But I do not know if they carry the ones I'm interested in. I will look into it. I liked the Glock 19 fine, but the spring was hard for me to pull back on the slide. Plus for me, it is too big for CCW. I thought the size of the Ruger LC9 was perfect. The M&P c is bigger than that. But it allows you to have left hand control, and that does make a difference to me. I have not gotten any notification of new messages, or I'd have replied sooner. Sorry about that.

     
  11. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    That class is 500 bucks. I won't be able to do that. I'd prefer not to pull a trigger in order to take the gun apart to clean it, unless I must.
     
  12. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    The CEO also comes across as....something that will get censored by edcf. There are a lot of people I'd want to take classes with before them.

    Couple other thoughts, since I can't sleep.

    First...don't worry about this. I pull the trigger to disassemble my M&P literally every time despite having the lever. Same with my glock. And everything else I've ever field stripped that works like that.

    The last step of my process to clear a gun is to point it in a safe direction and pull the trigger. You KNOW it's unloaded that way and knowing that you're about to do it MAKES you double check the chamber.

    Disassembly without pulling the trigger is a marketing ploy, a solution without a problem.

    Also as for the left-handed controls. I am left handed, and I prefer right handed pistol controls (except safety levers on 1911s).

    In my experience....

    It's easier to push a mag release with the inside of your ring finger than your thumb. I switched mine over for a while and ended up putting it back. I actually know a couple right handed competitors who install left handed mag releases because they've found its faster that way. This may not work if you have arthritis or limited mobility...but give it a try. It also doesn't work with some holsters. I have a q-series stealth that will eject the mag when I sit down.

    I don't think I've ever used the slide lock lever to release the slide. On anything. In everything I've done, I try not to go to slide lock. But when I have to, I find it easier to slingshot the slide than to find and press the release, whether it's ambi or not. On my M&P (full size and shield) I have never inserted a mag at slide lock and not had the slide catch release itself. On the other hand, I've watched people in competition do unnecessary reloads because their thumb rode the slide lock and engaged it and they thought the mag was empty. I know a few who installed aftermarket replacements that defeat the slide lock so it's only there for show (and to hold 1911-style guns together).

    And for decockers (I know you're not looking at anything with one, but still...) I really don't care where they are. I'm not going to use one in the heat of battle, and they don't really do anything unwanted (as long as it's not also a safety). Honestly, when I shoot guns with them...90% of the time, I just pull the trigger while rolling my thumb out of the way....like everyone did before decockers were a thing....because I don't care to rember where they all are.

    Safety levers...they have to be ambi...because there are no left handed only levers I'm aware of. The only ones I've ever liked are the 1911 style, which is pretty limiting. I've never failed to flip the safety off when I run my 1911, but I don't think I'll ever buy anything else that has one because I just don't care to learn anything else.

    The one thing I will never accept on a gun is an actual ambi mag release. The reversible ones on the m&p and glock and probably others...they're fine. But there's one...I think it's the FNS...that is just a horrible design. A proper grip with either hand will activate it some of the time...so every now and then the mag just falls out. I've watched it happen to very good competitors in the heat of a quick stage. I think they're just a bad design.

    Rifles are obviously different. I had an ambi safety installed on my AR and ordered an ambi charging handle before the paperwork was done. I need to get around to ordering an ambi mag release, but they're so expensive for what they are and I haven't needed more than 40 rounds in a stage yet....so I'm procrastinating. I'll probably buy a 60 round mag before I do.

    And the rifles I learned to shoot on (Anschuetzes for the Olympic precision style of shooting) were completely left handed.

    Just some food for thought. Take it for what you will.
     
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  13. kensington

    kensington Loaded Pockets

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    Have you checked out the Ruger SR9c? My wife loves shooting mine although it is larger than the LC9.
     
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  14. Tru7h

    Tru7h Loaded Pockets

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    moostapha, and for the OPs benifit:

    Agree and disagree. On one hand, there ARE people who have seriously injured themselves taking down glocks they THOUGHT were unloaded. You can find some pretty gory accounts without looking too hard. IIRC some of them have been made sticky posts at glocktalk.com. The reason I don't have a huge problem with that is the same reason I'm not concerned about the lack of a safety flip latch or whatnot: if you pull the trigger, you absolutely must be prepared for a round to discharge. I don't care if it's a BB gun or a Glock or a Bradley Assault Vehicle's main cannon. You have a habitual proceedure you follow EVERY time, regardless of the firearm.

    You will get such a proceedure drilled into you with any good professional firearm training, the least of which not being any military service.

    Mine is: Engage brain. Remove mag. Rack slide fully twice. Half rack (to avoid any chance of loading a round if I forgot step 2) and inspect chamber visually and physically. Inspect chamber loaded indicator if present. Double check brain engagement. Point firearm in acceptable direction*. Pull trigger.

    The above proceedure is basically foolproof. If followed even partly it would have prevented any horror stories one can dig up. It is better than any manual safety or release.

    That said, I still like the manual release.

    *Note that ACCEPTABLE DIRECTION should account for riccochets off hard surfaces, people on opposite sides of walls, items to which damage is absolutely unaffordable, etc. This is one of the reasons ENGAGE BRAIN is the immedielty previous step.
     
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  15. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    Kensington, I have not checked out the Ruger SR9c. I will look at it. I made a list of pistols I read were good for women to use. I just went down the list and talked to my buddy here, and my son. I got their opinions. But the M&P c is one I had not read about, but the guy at the counter mentioned it, and said that might be the best for me. I said I'd look it up. I wouldn't get one without reviews, and talking to people, in most cases.

    Moostapha you have written a lot there, I will have to read up on this again. I do have arthritis, that is one reason I need a pistol that is easier to pull the slide back. Plus I am using my weaker hand to pull it back too. I think the classes here are about 200 dollars now. They are just your average class, I am guessing. My son is in the military, and is an expert marksman. He can give me pointers, and work with me. Plus a good friend of mine will help me on dealing with a pistol. He can go with me to the range, or out in the country to target practice anytime he is off, and not on call.

    I will have to learn how to clean the pistol I choose. That will be done before I shoot it. My son will be here but only for 3 days or so. He has some family matters to deal with, so he won't have much time for me, and the CCW situation. I have another friend who can tell me what I need to know about classes and stuff. The people I am close with are thrilled I am finally going to take this step.
     
  16. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    Just get a sig 238 or 938 if you have arthritis . If can't rack one them ,go j frame Smith .

    Jake
     
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  17. kkay

    kkay Uber Prepared

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    What is j frame Smith...Smith & Wesson?

    I have heard good things about Sig, but my son discouraged me on them. Maybe he thinks they are overpriced because of the name. I prefer an American company. But I could go with a Glock, if it is much better for me. If not, I'd rather keep an American company in business.
     
  18. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    P238 and p938 are a fundamentally flawed design. Search for my posts on the topic.

    I don't know how arthritis affects you. But, there are ways around it. There are wings you can add to get a better grip on the slide. A reversible mag release is probably an advantage. But the paddle style might be worth looking at too. And you probably could get away with a lighter recoil spring and avoiding +p ammo. Also, if your eyes are fading (as they all do), it might be worth eventually looking into a red dot like a Trijicon RMR. They're VERY expensive. But they make shooting a lot easier on your eyes and give you a big charging handle on top of the slide.

    Don't rule anything out before you try it.

    As for guns for women...it's complete :censored:. Guns aren't sexist.

    If you can get a good grip, you can get a good grip. Bigger and heavier guns are easier to shoot for everybody (up to a point).

    Women's only classes might be good just because you won't have other students talking down to you, but the instructor still might. And don't let anyone tell you that you have to do things differently because you're a girl. Girls, in my experience, learn to shoot faster than guys. Some of the guys I've taught/coached or watched learn have gone farther, but it's because they were more committed and stuck with it longer, which has nothing to do with gender.

    The only thing I've watched that is different is body position. Some girls have to exaggerate it a bit more to shoot fast, but I'm 100% convinced that it's because these girls weigh about 100lbs compared to guys closer to 200lbs combined with differences in upper body muscle mass.

    If you look at the Olympics...girls vs. guys in the same discipline...except that guys shoot more shots, the scores are neck & neck at the top.

    Sorry I went off on that tangent, but the idea of different guns for girls annoys me.
     
  19. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    A j frame Smith and Wesson is their smallest revolver . They were brought out in the early 50s
    I have owned one since 1971 . A model 60 is my house gun. 357 mag
    The sig is made in New Hampshire and is a copy of the colt mustang .
    The big benefit of a 238 is that it can be made safe easily and they don't jam .
    It's smaller in the grip area and nice and thin for carry

    Jake
     
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  20. Wishoot

    Wishoot Loaded Pockets

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    Check out the EAA Pavona. Interesting gun that's marketed towards women. Looks like it's pretty much another CZ Clone with pretty colors and reduced power recoil springs to make it easier to work the slide. .

    I suppose S&W's "Ladysmith" line were geared towards women, but I know plenty of dudes that own, shoot and carry them too.
     
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