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Testing Body Armor

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by JoeLiberty, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    I though we might start a new thread to talk about a topic that was brought up in a different thread, which I don't want to totally derail. This post sparked what I think could be a good conversation about gun safety, caliber efficacy, and science in general. The OP asked about 9mm vs 380, which led to someone posting this:
    As a PSA, please do not try this at home. Hopefully this is obvious to most of us... Hopefully even the OP would agree that attempting this is very dangerous. More than a few people have been killed 'testing' a bulletproof vest.
    http://wfla.com/2016/09/11/police-testing-bullet-proof-vest-leaves-tampa-man-dead/
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-bulletproof-vest-killing-20150526-story.htmlhttp://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/man-charged-murder-bulletproof-vest
    I don't think kevlar supported by a hard plate would yield the same results as kevlar supported by soft tissue. I know a little about material science and when you change the support conditions, you change the capacity of a product, sometimes wildly. My main question is what was this test supposed to achieve?
     
  2. huntnow

    huntnow Loaded Pockets

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    I cannot possibly fathom why, with all the modern scientific and empirical methods of testing ammunition performance, anyone would conduct a real life "feel" test. The only achievement I can think of is that in which the subject describes said test and thus receives lots of attention. In fact, I have some difficulty believing this actually occurred.
     
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  3. rkazooti

    rkazooti Loaded Pockets

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    It didn't, fun read though.
     
  4. huntnow

    huntnow Loaded Pockets

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    Now I'm confused. I don't remember reading that thread and didn't search for it. Was it a joke?
     
  5. rkazooti

    rkazooti Loaded Pockets

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    I think mods disappeared it, and rightfully so.
     
  6. MCPOWoller

    MCPOWoller Loaded Pockets

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    https://www.edcforums.com/threads/need-help-choosing-a-new-gun.137328/ This is the link to the OP where the member was asking help in picking a new gun. Some suggested 9mm and some suggested .380. Thus starting a 9mm vs .380 debate which got away from the original intent of the post. I'll talk body armor all day, but not in a post that didn't ask for it or about it. That to me is the kind of behavior that turns people away.

    For the record I don't believe any of the story about the testing of the body armor. I was thankful that my armor was never needed for its intended purpose during my two trips to Iraq. I can't fathom anyone would be dumb enough to actually try it.
     
    DCBman and huntnow like this.
  7. DCBman

    DCBman Loaded Pockets

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    Absolutely no idea! If you'd like to see my opinion of the value of said 'alleged' test (and the person conducting it) please refer to my comments in the original thread referenced by MCPO above. Unfortunately, (unlike MCPO) I was not able to restrain myself from responding to that particular post given the potentially deadly outcome if some other innocent 'reader' were to be misinformed enough to attempt something as incomprehensibly foolish.

    edit...and to add some further emphasis, I'll have to go back and look to see if I can find the original report on a similar incident. In that incident another foolish tester willingly subjected himself to a .44 magnum test on a ballistic vest with a level 5 armor plate. The bullet didn't penetrate the vest/plate, but the center-mass shot placement and associated energy transfer induced coronary arrest in the victim.
     
    Last edited by DCBman, Apr 24, 2017
    #7 DCBman, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
    0dBm likes this.
  8. 9x19

    9x19 Loaded Pockets

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    Back in the 80s, when Richard Davis started Second Chance, selling bullet proof vests, the "experts" said even if it stopped the bullet, the blunt force trauma would still break bones and or cause internal injuries. Richard made a video and sent copies to LEAs where he was shot while wearing his product to show such expert knowledge was junk.

    He even shot himself with a .44 mag and took multiple rounds from a 9mm sub gun to show you wouldn't be injured or knocked off your feet. His video sold lots of Cops on his vests.

    You can find the video on YouTube I imagine.
     
  9. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    a) Attempting anything of this magnitude is VERY dangerous and VERY risky to any human. DON'T be a fool and try it yourself.
    b) Yes, that is true.
    c) The test results supported my objective.

    DO NOT PLACE ANY CREDENCE ON WHAT I STATED IN THE PREVIOUS THREAD THAT YOU REFERENCED. WHAT I STATED IS CONVERSATION ONLY.
     
  10. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    a) I understand your statement. Carry on.
    b) Don't even try to believe it.

    DO NOT PLACE ANY CREDENCE ON WHAT I STATED IN THE PREVIOUS THREAD THAT WAS REFERENCED. WHAT I STATED IS CONVERSATION ONLY.
     
  11. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    That would be seriously injurious! The calculated ballistics would be enough to implore anyone to NOT test it upon oneself.
     
  12. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Richard Davis was one of the early pioneers on this facet of testing. He has tons of documented data, years of credible, verifiable evidence. He sold his company to Safariland. Consult him regarding any questions.

    I implore ANYONE to NOT give any credence to anything posted on any public intent forum. Its just conversation.
     
  13. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Now that I have clearly established that what I stated in the thread that you referenced was just conversation, please tell us about your knowledge about materials testing.
     
  14. chaosmagnet
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
    • In Omnia Paratus

    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

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    One of the instructors I trust tested body armor by wrapping a 4x4 wood billet in said body armor, firing various rounds at it and measuring the dent in the wood for each one. It's probably about as scientific as what was described above, and far, far safer.
     
  15. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Safer than what?

    During the 1950s, I watched a certain government agency test rifle rounds in that manner. I don't remember much about it since I was just a youngster more occupied with how loud the sounds were.
     
  16. chaosmagnet
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
    • In Omnia Paratus

    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

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    It's safer to measure a dent in a chunk of wood wrapped in body armor, compared to measuring the dent in a person wrapped in body armor. Don't do the latter.
     
  17. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    I thought the plate went over the armor. I know several female officers that refuse to wear the plate because of the possibility of spalling to the face.
     
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  18. DCBman

    DCBman Loaded Pockets

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    Ain't gonna' matter a whole lot when the only thing which gets to see that pretty face is the inside of a pine box (...after they take a bullet center-mass)!

    Edited for sexist language.
     
    #18 DCBman, Apr 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2017
  19. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    You're the first one to catch that! You're paying attention!
     
  20. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    What was the result of the chunk 'o wood test?