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Successor to my Surefire 6P

Discussion in 'Flashlights & Other Illumination Devices' started by 0dBm, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Surefire P1R Peacekeeper Tactical

    I have long retired my 6P; eliminating it from my inventory. Years ago the 6Z took its place. That is gone as well when I acquired the P2ZX (on permanent nightstand "duty" now). I wanted something that uses 1 rechargeable battery instead of two CR123s.

    I have not owned many flashlights. I prefer to have only a few. Enter the P1R. One output level. Press switch to activate; release to turn off. It works.

    No USB charging port, multi-level output, lanyard attach loop, odd angles, unnecessary Klingon-like-Gil Hibben-esque protrusions, titanium this-copper that.

    And certainly no stupid pocket clip!
     
  2. Mumbojumboo
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner

    Mumbojumboo EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    600 is a lot lumens. Don't you ever need less? Going to wake up the whole camp ground. :)
     
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  3. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod Loaded Pockets

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    600 is definitely a lot of light. I've got a SF Fury for the garage and recently replaced my G2s and 6Ps with G2X Pros for the cars, front door, and late walks. SF makes a solid product.
     
  4. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    The amount of light these modern LEDs provide is amazing! I have the Countycomm Ti 1-AAA for utility. Even that tiny light provides a incredible output in Low mode. Six-hundred lumens is indeed an enormous amount considering that the original 6P's P60 lamp assembly was only 60 lumens. The P1R is in my hands when the sun sets whether in or outdoors.
     
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  5. Mumbojumboo
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner

    Mumbojumboo EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I work carry a zl sc52d but when night comes it's time to break out the big guns. :)
     
  6. Cuester

    Cuester Loaded Pockets

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    Do you like the fury? I'm debating picking one up next week.
     
  7. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod Loaded Pockets

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    Really like it but, like I said, it's a LOT of light in close quarters. If people are around or I'm just looking around the house I use the 320s a lot more especially if there is other ambient light. Spraying someone with 600 is painful. I often walk at night where it's dark in areas and 600 is perfect for fields, long streets, etc but when others are around, street lights present, etc I find 300-400 is more useful. That said, the Fury is a solid light and doesn't seem to eat batteries as much as I thought it would.
     
  8. FK

    FK Loaded Pockets

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    Consider keeping the Surefire 6P / Z3 and using a Malkoff drop-in lamp.
    Both take rechargeable batteries.
    I really like and prefer the Surefire bullet proof design with twisty tail caps,, no problems with clicky tailcaps failing, switches sticking and all the new higher powered LED cooking from the heat generated. Note, most of the very high lumens claimed are for a very short time period, they drop down quickly to protect the emitters.

    Malkoff M61 = 325 lum, 1.5 hrs
    Malkoff M61L = 175 lum, 5+ hrs
    Malkoff M61LL = 100 lum, 10+ hrs

    Regards,
    FK
     
  9. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod Loaded Pockets

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    I looked at those same lights when I was thinking about upgrading my G2 army. Good products from the reviews but my issue was the cost. By the time I spent $40 plus shipping for the drop in, I was at $44-45 versus $52-$55 with free shipping for a new GPX Pro on eBay which gave me the dual illumination plus I ended up with two lights for $10 more. Can they be found cheaper than $40 on the Malkoff site?
     
  10. Rob Babcock

    Rob Babcock Loaded Pockets

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    I think Malkoff stuff is worth the money. I used to have several Surefire lights but now I only have one that's all SF (an X300 Ultra weapon light), the rest I've either sold or kept just as hosts for Malkoff dropins. In fact I still have a G2Z and two 6P's, all three of which have various Malkoff M61s. In my experience the tint of the Malkoffs is better and they're more durable. To me that's worth the extra money.

    Most of my current lights are Malkoff and Elzetta. I think both of those brands are better and more durable/reliable than current SF offerings.
     
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  11. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    On what basis is your opinion formed?

    I don't own or have ever used those two brands; however, I'm always looking for products that are durable & reliable. I have over 27 years of continuous usage with 2-cell Surefire products: namely the 6P, 6Z, P2ZX, P1R. I thought that I had given away the 1st two; however, I saw them in my garage today. They still function.

    I haven't purposely abused them in any way; but they have sustained their fair share of drops to the ground or floor. They kept functioning after all the rough duty. The newest models have only a few years between them.

    My opinion of Surefire reliability is from empirical data, albeit undocumented, but pertinent nonetheless and enough for me to have invested in those newer models as direct replacement for the older pair.
     
  12. Rob Babcock

    Rob Babcock Loaded Pockets

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    I've owned a lot of Surefires over the years and I feel that their quality has declined a bit. Maybe it's just that their philosophy has changed. You can see some of the changes in YouTube video reviews. One big issue for me is that they seem to be trying to go after the Chinese light market a bit with brighter and smaller lights. A side effect is that they're cutting corners. For instance some of their lights used to be sprung on both ends of the battery to protect from shock but many of the newer lights do away with this. I can't name them all but presumably in an effort to make the light my shorter my old E1bs don't have a spring on the head end of the light- the + end of the battery just butts right up against the circuit board. In practical terms it still seemed like the lights worked well and the warranty was good but each time the light gets smacked or dropped the terminal is hammering the board.

    As for the emitters, I like higher output but they used to wait til an emitter had a good track record for reliability. That usually meant they used good ones but not SoTA and didn't chase the latest thing. They also seem to be either fudging the output specs (not illegally but by stepping down quickly to manage heat) or overdriving the light. Elzetta does a good video where they put a voltmeter on the batteries of an Elzetta and a "Brand B" (a Surefire) and demonstrated that the latter is drawing current beyond the accepted safe level for CR123A batteries.

    Lastly it could be that Surefires aren't getting worse in absolute terms; maybe they're just not as good relative to the competition. Surefire was one of the first makers of "serious" lights I think they've been lapped by Malkoff and Elzetta. For instance every Malkoff and Elzetta product that I am aware of features fully potted electronics. This means the head/engine is backfilled with thermal epoxy. The effect of this is to make them virtually indestructible and not very susceptible to shock, impact or vibration. To my knowledge no Surefire using thermal potting in the light. Also, both of those companies take pains to ensure the tint/color temp of their lights. Elzetta uses neutral emitters and many Malkoffs offer several options running the gamut from Cool White to Warm. By contrast all of the Surefires I've had have an unpleasant green tint to the light (although this effect is barely noticeable in my X300 Ultra).

    By no means am I saying that Surefire stuff isn't good, it's just not as good as Malkoff or Elzetta IMO. I don't really think many Surefire lights represent a good value nowadays, either. Just for me if I want a duty/hard-use light Surefires are inferior to Elzetta and Malkoff, and if I want a super powered flamer thrower I think the Chinese lights offer more for the money (eg JETBeam, Fenix, etc).
     
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  13. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    All of this makes a plausible argument for build quality and more "lumens for the buck" in terms of paper specifications and laboratory-esque testing. How many LEO agencies and military units presently use either the Elzetta or Malkoff? That would be my secondary criteria for choosing a flashlight that I'll take to go into harm's way; however, my primary is my own personal, professional history of over 27 years of continuous usage of which does not include those two aforementioned comparatively-custom products.

    Not to discount the Elzetta or Malkoff product group; however, your mentioned that you, "...think both of those brands are better and more durable/reliable." I have tested some samples and they are fine products. Some of us can't afford to speculate when it comes to our safety. Some of us believe that a certain product will perform adequately just like it has performed reliably in the past. Then there are those such as myself that KNOW a certain device will be the one-that one-that will get me through the night, day, afternoon, hour, scenario, etc. Call it a leap faith. I need to put "stock" into something and my personal experience is it.

    I have no brand loyalty. I do; however, have loyalty in results based on empirical data from actual field usage. In diety we trust, all others, gimme field data and I'll take my data over any other.
     
  14. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    All of which is fine and it is clearly your choice here but......you asked about the differences and then they were listed even breifly and you repeated that your experience is what you stand on but this seems to be with little regard of the fact that the current lights might well not be the same as the ones you have grown to trust.

    Of course this is brand loyalty and blind loyalty at that.

    Malkoff was built on the purchases of the LEO and with only the safety and reliability that you claim to be your criteria too.
    I think that pretty much validates that even though the data may not be from your experience that they have indeed earned the acceptance of the data being just as valid as your own just from others in the same boat,don't you?

    I think the fact that a Malkoff Drop-in is accepted as a true upgrade for a Sure Fire tells me that they have earned the place that they have and are too humble to brag about too.
    Elzetta likewise ONLY use the Malkoff Drop-in and seem as bulletproof and battle proven as Surefire to me except for the single fact that they just have not been around as long.

    I have no stake in your choices at all and I don't think you will be hurt sticking with Surefire but they are not the same as they used to be either from my own experience as has been offered already and you do probably need to at least consider the experience of others with them since you did ask.
     
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  15. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    That is very much so, however, I did use the newer ones that I now own before purchasing them. They were loaners from colleagues (my underling). That way, I did have empirical data with the specific newer models that I now own before I purchased them WHILE I was still using the older items that I had long-used.

    It appears that you, too, may be sold on the Elzetta and Malkoff. As you said, "all of which is fine and it is clearly your choice..." They are where Surefire was years ago: a "startup" looking to nab a piece of the market from the big boys.

    I'll test the Elzetta and Malkoff in due time because I am always looking for reliable tools. I'll use them while simultaneously having the Surefires as backup. That's my way of "validating" their usefulness and reliability; having something of similar functionality that I KNOW will function in the event that the product under field eval should fail rather than rely on advertisement. As you said, "...for the single fact that they just have not been around as long." Not enough data.;)
     
  16. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I hear you loud and clear and I feel almost as passionately about this as you do and I have already started that same evaluation process and am in it now for a few years which is where my new found faith in Malkoff & Elzetta was born.

    If its not broke I do not want to fix it!

    It is worth mentioning also that Streamlight is also on this list for me.
    Every Streamlight "Pro" level light that I own can still be pressed into service pretty much like the day it was new no matter how much abuse I throw at them.
    Also much like Surefire they have stayed mostly with what made them great until recently and still offer many of those same classic models just as they always have and they seem just the same at least outwardly to me.
    I just got a brand new Knucklehead Work Light and it is exactly like the one that I have had for 20 years except the LEDs in there are brighter and better and it is clean!

    I wish there were more products like this that realize they are just right as they already are and it might not be worth changing them for the sake of change alone.

    Anyway I am confident that you will find the Malkoff and Elzetta to be up to the task but like you related,Time takes Time too.
     
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  17. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Unfortunately, this occurs rather too frequently as businesses clamor for a bigger piece of the almighty dollar and its equivalent. Capitalism at it s best but at the risk of dilution of focus that can (but not necessarily directly) result in a degradation of reliability.

    I saw much of that move towards diversification with the bewildering number of variations in Surefire's product line about a decade ago. They just simply had too many available models to choose from. They have recently curtailed their product groups and total number of models in their mainstay offerings but have forayed into more offerings targeting the civilian market. It's good to diversify a business towards growth. Bad thing to lose that focus. Malkoff's webpage of products has expanded considerably and is headed down the same path as Surefire once did when they went after Maglite's principle shortcomings. In due time, Elzetta will do the same...
     
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  18. Dirty Rod

    Dirty Rod Loaded Pockets

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    Very well said as well as the comments from OdBm and EZDog. Nice to see a well articulated discussion based on experience and facts rather than the usual unsubstantiated opinion based arguments commonly found on forums these days.

    Admittedly, having used Surefires for over a decade with only one failure despite dropping them off roofs, submerging, shooting classes, and numerous adventures that killed inferior lights, I'm a fanboy. I do acknowledge that there are lots of good lights out there and, in fact, just ordered my 2nd Malkoff drop in for the G2 on my AR.

    Since I recently replaced half a dozen G2s and 6Ps with G2Xs and Furys, I'll be looking hard to see how they hold up over time.

    Thanks for the information.
     
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  19. Rob Babcock

    Rob Babcock Loaded Pockets

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    I don't get a kickback from Elzetta or Malkoff so I'm not trying to convince anyone.:rofl: I would suggest though that if you want some data points, take one of each of them to the top of a water tower and throw all three off. I'm pretty sure two of them will still work when you get back to the ground...you figure out which two.;)
     
  20. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    I'll throw the two that I presently don't carry daily. I'll hold on to the one that I do because that exercise would not be part of the would-be protocol that I use for gathering data for this product type. You can not only "figure out" which two, but you can have those two if you're willing to use them after they have sustained the damage. Judging by your post, you're certain they they will function after the impact. More power to you if you'll do that to your equipment. I don't do that to the stuff that I rely on.
     
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