1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

stop the bleeding

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by TIREdMAN, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. TIREdMAN

    TIREdMAN Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    well i have taken quite the ribbing from my wife over the past few weeks since i started carring my "murse" as she calls it. but a couple of weeks ago, one week to the day that i started carrying my utg edc bag, our 11 year old son fell off his bike and sustained a SEVERE puncture wound on his thigh very close to his femoral artery. we were with him at the time and so was my edc bag. thank god for my fak! i was able to stave off the bleeding with a tournaquet using a shoulder sling and one of my folding knives until the rescue squad arrived on scene. now to my question. does anyone know of anything i can carry in my fak to stop bleeding, or at the very least slow it down? there was alot of blood, and i mean ALOT! after it was all said and done my son recieved 13 stitches, but thankfully no artery knick. i came away looking like i was at a murder scene. please advise and thanks in advance for your time.
     
  2. Kripto

    Kripto Evil Sid

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,019
    Likes Received:
    7,879
    I think quickclot might be the stuff to use, but I've heard stories about trauma ER docs HATING that stuff because they have to clean it from the wound. I think there is SportClot as well that might be a little better... And I also know that CountyComm sells Israeli trauma bandages.. I've (luckily) never had to use any of that stuff, but it's out there..

    As always YMMV and I take no responsibility for false or misleading info. I just google it. ;)
     
    sungame likes this.
  3. bdbart

    bdbart Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    7
    http://www.combattourniquet.com/

    I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but ebay has these for $20-$30. It's just a tourniquet (military quality), but made for one hand operation, if needed. Thankfully I have not needed mine, and hopefully never will, but it stays in my car FAK (within reach).
     
  4. DialM

    DialM Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    5
    Did you go directly to tourniquet, or did you try and fail to stop the bleeding by other means first? An Israeli combat bandage would be a good start.
     
  5. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    112
    If it wasn't an arterial bleed direct pressure would almost certainly have done it and you certainly would not want to be using a Haemostatic like Quikclot. If you do need it a proper tourniquet is much much better than improvised and far less likely to make matters worse. Is there a decent first aid course you can take near you? Probably better than anything you can carry and you always have it with you.
     
  6. vivek16

    vivek16 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    7
    Direct pressure, elevation, pressure points, and an improvised tourniquet will be enough 99% of the time. Learn how to do all of these things well. Buying toys and carrying them with you is not a replacement for the proper training. :)
     
    ac7ss, wildborego, Rapt_up and 2 others like this.
  7. 72hours

    72hours Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    50
    I know it seems like a lot of blood, but even a little bit of the red stuff goes a long way...... Chances are if you'd had some decent bandages/gauze, you could have controlled it using direct pressure, as mentioned above. You really don't need to use TQ's very often, nor haemostats. They're really just for arterial bleeds. Anyone, feel free to correct me, I'm just speaking from experience and the training I've received thus far....
     
  8. BravoOscarFoxtrotHotel

    BravoOscarFoxtrotHotel Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    202
    First of all: Good job, that ought to stop your wife from ragging on you for carrying a murse O0 Hope your son is well again!

    I would rather go with an Izzy in such cases. Tourniquets in my opinion should be the last resort if all other means have failed. I don't have any experience with QuikClot, though - but I am not sure if I would use it on a child. That's just me, there's a fair chance that I might have gotten that wrong and you can use the stuff on any person.

    My $0.02
     
    sungame likes this.
  9. TIREdMAN

    TIREdMAN Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks all for the comments and suggestions. i am a volunteer fire fighter/emt in the town in which i live, so i have been through all required training as well as some not required training. the reason i resorted to the tournaquette was because my wife was frantic and i could not keep direct pressure by myself while trying to find a pulse in his foot to verify there was no femoral knick. the tq enabled me to controll the bleeding as well as give me an opportunity to get my stethascope from my edc to check pulse in his foot. i was looking for something along the lines of quickclot but i know the horror stories of that stuff. in my younger years i severed my pinky finger on my right hand through the bone leaving a skin tag holding my finger dangling from my hand. my friends mother (a nurse) got a tube of superglue and glued my finger in place and rushed me to the hospital. needless to say the docs were quite upset. i have never heard of an israeli combat bandage but thanks to you knowledgeable folks i know what to look for. thanks again and keep up the good work!
     
  10. vegassprky
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
    • In Omnia Paratus

    vegassprky Loaded Circuits

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    11,578
    Likes Received:
    63,699
    Did your finger survive?
     
  11. c7a1

    c7a1 Empty Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Tiredman,

    Believe me when i say i am experienced. Make yourself a dedicated medical pouch.(i use a FR-1 pouch from maxpedition) you can find loads of info how to make one youtube. Next to all those basic's i carry a CAT tourniquet, C2 bandage (aka israeli type), and quik cloth acs+ .

    Cheers from Europe

    C7a1
     
    sungame likes this.
  12. BravoOscarFoxtrotHotel

    BravoOscarFoxtrotHotel Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    202
    Ouch.... :shock:
     
  13. TIREdMAN

    TIREdMAN Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    0
    yupper vegassprky... albeit very crooked now. looks like a gnarled tree branch. i have no feeling in it what so ever. this happened when i was about 16 years old working on my cousins farm.
     
  14. cap6888
    • In Omnia Paratus

    cap6888 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    60
    Here is my EDC FAK

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F80udzC3bA

    I also carry one blow out patch (old school USGI trauma dressing) which is very compact. I think between these two items, it would have been suffice to handle the injury you faced.
     
    sungame likes this.
  15. medic2807

    medic2807 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    849
    Likes Received:
    649
    Greater than 9 times out of 10, you can patch a major bleed with a properly applied trauma dressing in the civilian setting. 4x4s, Kerlix and an ACE wrap work great. If that doesn't work, Quikclot or Celox. If it is an exsanguinating bleed, then a tourniquet.
     
  16. rabidchicken

    rabidchicken Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    11
    Yup. A tourniquet should be the very last thing you go to. You can cause the loss of a limb unnecessarily from the inappropriateuse of one.
     
  17. fatnewt

    fatnewt Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    14
    Thought I saw somewhere here, and I have no training, that the experience from the last ten+ years of trauma treatment in Irag and Afghanistan have led to the adoption of tourniquets in more situations than before. And I'm not sure if this was one of those situations, but I thought there had been a reassessment of tourniquet application, although with a wider one used. Could be totally off-base, but just tossing it out there.
     
  18. cap6888
    • In Omnia Paratus

    cap6888 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    60
    You are correct. With the use of medevacs, more trauma centers nationwide, and the experience gained in the current combat zone, tourniquets are back in the mix. The National Registry of EMTs (the organization that is "in charge" certification of EMTs and Paramedics) has changed the protocol from the old "direct pressure, elevation, pressure points, tourniquet" to "direct pressure then tourniquet". The amount of time a tourniquet is on a limb is what used to cause the issue with limb loss. It has been learned that a PROPER tourniquet can be applied and left in place for much longer than was previously thought. The key to a proper tourniquet is that it should be at least 2 inches wide. The old rolled up bandana and a stick isn't a wise alternative. In my job as a firefighter/medic, we use a blood pressure cuff. We put it on the limb and pump it up until the bleeding stops. We recently had a call at a dialysis center where the patient passed out and pulled out her dialysis shunt. Needless to say it was a bloody mess. Literally. BP cuff on, and ton of trauma dressings and a quick ride to the hospital. Had we not done that and only tried direct pressure she would have bled out (thats what the ER doc said).

    With the advent of the new izzy dressings and "combat" tourniquets. it makes it much easier to be prepared. I have not had much experience with the new QuikClot nor Celox. When I was in Iraq in 2003, Quikclot was brand new and still the exothermic variety. However from my experiences there and at my job now, direct pressure with a trauma dressing handles most large wounds.
     
  19. 72hours

    72hours Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    50
    Military FA protocols are very different. TQ's are prescribed more often in military circumstances and their DRSABC's are even different, it's DRSHABC's (Dangers, Response, Send for Help, Hemorrhage, Airways, Breathing, Circulation) simply because of the environment and the types of injuries they are likely to sustain. Civilian environment, basic training, no TQ's. If you've had the training, go ahead.
     
  20. chefjon

    chefjon Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    4
    Without being there (or knowing you), I can't speak directly to the facts of the incident, but here are my thoughts:

    1. It sounds like you did the right thing with what you had. Kudos for the fast, decisive action and being prepared! Blood loss for a child is more critical than from an adult (from a ratio of overall volume)

    2. Nothing beats training from a professional. All the gear in the world won't help if you don't understand what the problem is or how to fix it (I apply this to everything I can). It sounds like you've had instruction, but a refresher Red Cross course might be a good idea. It also allows access to someone who can answer your questions knowledgeably.

    3. From my Red Cross class, they advise direct (forceful) pressure with increasing numbers of gauze pads. The next step is a tourniquet if the bleeding is uncontrollable, but that may lead to tissue death and nerve damage in extended situations. I asked about Hemostatic Agents (quickclot, celox, and the like) and the main thing they said was to document the time of use. This has to do with it being a chemical-cauterization and there being a time-window for cleaning it out before tissue damage sets in. Still beats death by far, imo.

    4. I keep Israeli Trauma bandages everywhere I can because they can fit both roles (pressure and tourniquet) and they come in compact and near-indestructible packaging.

    5. Like Kripto said, nothing I say should be construed as professional medical advice.

    Thanks for sharing your incident (must have been terrifying, especially being your child). I'm going to review my material as soon as I'm done with this post. I hope I've been able to help point you in the direction of the answers you desire. Once again- GOOD JOB!

    [video=youtube;S2_EU1T-o-g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2_EU1T-o-g[/video]

    Warning: GRAPHIC CONTENTS

    [video=youtube;DC1F08TtBG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC1F08TtBG4[/video]
     
    wildborego likes this.