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So here's the thing...

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by tadbik, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. tadbik

    tadbik Empty Pockets

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    I've been asked to advise on a pistol for a first timer. For home defense use and concealed carry. No idea what to advise so I'm asking you guys.

    Probably a 9mm. He's not going to be shooting a lot of practice rounds so it's got to be something easy to control. He would prefer with a laser but not one that requires a special holster. He's a right hander. Thanks.
     
  2. El Verbo

    El Verbo Empty Pockets

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    Desert Eagle. Point-Five-Oh.

    Makes a home a fortress.
     
  3. vermeire

    vermeire Loaded Pockets

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    He needs to hold as many guns as possible so he can get a feel for what is comfortable in his hand. Even better would be to be able to shoot any that he thinks feel good so he can experience it completely. I wouldn't rule out other calibers at this point. Things to keep in mind in regards to carrying, weight, grip length, width. Don't rule out revolvers either. I know lots of gun shops recommend them for new shooters or for women, but that's not why I say it. Revolvers have been used for a lot longer than semi-autos and by a lot more people too.


    The most important thing is for the new gun owner to pick out his own gun; not you or a sales person. The happier he is with it the more likely he is to shoot it and carry it.
     
  4. tadbik

    tadbik Empty Pockets

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    You're right. I told him that he needs to feel the guns and shoot them but a short list would help. Thanks
     
  5. tadbik

    tadbik Empty Pockets

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    Probably not a good choice for a first timer and what about concealed carry??!!
     
  6. P35

    P35 Loaded Pockets

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    for a new shooter.......S&W 38 special J frame
     
  7. chavez

    chavez Loaded Pockets

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    For home defense, an inexpensive pump 12 gauge is hard to beat. It makes a distinctive noise when you rack it that should make any intruder think twice about staying on the premises. Depending, on the load, you can minimize over-penetration through walls and avoid collateral damage.

    For CCW, it is really difficult to recommend a particular model without more information. However, vermeire gave a useful tip on getting started with that choice.
     
  8. irgun37

    irgun37 Loaded Pockets

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    This would sum up what I would offer as advice.
    Well put chaves and vermeire, well put.
     
  9. greenLED

    greenLED Empty Pockets

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    Exactly! The best thing you can do is help him try as many guns as possible and let him decide which one he thinks suits him best.

    I'll have to disagree. When I first started shooting somebody gave me the same suggestion. Although, they fit nicely in my hand, revolvers were a BEAR to shoot. I found that pistols were a whole lot easier for me to shoot with.

    ...except you can't conceal carry a shotgun, and if your friend is a smaller-sized dude, he won't be comfortable with a 12 gauge.

    I have mixed feelings about that "rack the slide and they'll run away" mantra. :shrug:
     
  10. Cochiez

    Cochiez Empty Pockets

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    IMO, all advice so far has been good advice. For home defense, I actually think a 20-guage shotgun is best suited. Here's why:
    1) Anyone can shoot it
    2) with proper load, it'll eliminate any threat
    3) for home defense, you want a load that will eliminate the threat, without going through a wall and striking a loved one. Many 12-guage loads (or handgun loads) will pass through walls, introducing the possibility of unintended casualties. That said, there are 12-guage and pistol loads that are less likely to pass through walls too.

    I've spent some time shooting .38 special from an SP101 revolver. It's an easy shoot, but it's hard to keep accurate. For short distance self defense (say, 10-feet), I believe it to be a good choice for even inexperienced shooters. However, unpracticed shooters may find it difficult to shoot accurately at even moderate distances.

    I agree that this person's best bet is to handle (and shoot, if possible) as many guns as possible before making the purchase. That said, carrying a concealed weapon is a big responsibility - one I do not believe should be taken lightly. IMO, no one should carry a concealed pistol unless they are willing to train with it. :thumbsdown:
     
  11. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Kahr Model K9 9mm


    Longer trigger pull for the "first timer:"
    "NYCPD Specs.
    The NYCPD trigger length of pull is 1/2" versus 3/8" on all other Kahr pistols. Trigger pull weight is the same as other Kahr pistols, between 7.5 and 9 lbs."
     
  12. Dizos

    Dizos Loaded Pockets

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    I would not be willing to advise someone who is new and not willing to practice on a concealed carry weapon. I would recommend that they try a number of models at a store that rents until they find what they shoot best with and are the most comfortable with before making a purchase. Then they need to take a CCW class and afterward frequently practice with that firearm until they know what they can do with it. If too many inexperienced people have a CCW, tragic accidents will occur. Another tragedy is that accidents like those will threaten all of our 2nd Amendment rights. Our 2nd Amendment rights require a great deal of responsibility, particularly when bringing a firearm into the public domain.
     
  13. FlipMag

    FlipMag Loaded Pockets

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    Glock 19 (9mm) - Why?

    Home protection - no safety to fiddle with or forget it is on.
    CCW - its a tad smaller than a full size making it easier to conceal and not to mention a Glock is lighter then say a Sig Sauer or Baretta.

    Oh and if he is the irresponsible type, recommend he get a dog instead. (Personally Im more afraid of getting attacked by a dog, then a dude with a gun in the house - but thats just me)
     
  14. Cochiez

    Cochiez Empty Pockets

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    Well said.
     
  15. Johnny_Z

    Johnny_Z Loaded Pockets

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    Fergit the hog leg, go for the shotgun.
     
  16. tadbik

    tadbik Empty Pockets

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    Thanks, but can we forget the shotguns. It's not very concealable!

    The Glock 19 looks like a good choice and someone has suggested to me the S&W M&P9C which I think looks suitable. Any more along those lines?

    Yes I know he's got to try them out but he's not going to randomly take guns out to the range. 3 - 6 suitable pistols should do the trick. Don't forget, he'd like a laser that doesn't require a special holster. Both the Glock and the S&W are suitable (LaserMax and Crimson trace).
     
  17. JN01

    JN01 Loaded Pockets

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    Is this person new to shooting, new to handgun shooting, or an experienced shooter new to ownership?

    If he's new to handgun shooting, he might want to stay away from dinky guns, which will be more difficult to learn to shoot with. DAO guns without external safeties (Glock, Kahr, S&W M&P, etc) would probably be easier to start off with.

    My suggestion, however, would be for a 2 1/2"-3" barrel S&W K frame revolver, particularly if he doesn't plan on shooting a lot. The manual of arms is a little more complicated for an auto and requires a little more practice for it to become second nature (remembering to check the chamber to clear the gun, stoppage drills, etc.) while the revolver is very simple. Also, if you buy an auto, you should put a good number of rounds through it with your self defense ammo of choice to make sure that it will function properly, not anywhere near as critical with a revolver. Lastly, a new handgun shooter may be more prone to limpwristing which can cause problems with an auto but not the revolver.

    P.S. If he thinks that laser grips will substitute for learning the fundamentals, he may be disappointed.
     
  18. Kabong30

    Kabong30 Empty Pockets

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    My first firearm was my XD40. I spent months thinking about and researching what I wanted. The XD won me over because of it's track record, price, and safety.

    The gun has both a trigger safety and a grip safety, which while still possible makes it tougher for the weapon to be "accidentally" discharged. There's also a loaded chamber indicator on the top of the slide and a "cocked" indicator on the back. While you should still always check the weapon yourself, it is a very quick way to check that the gun is "condition one".

    This article went a long way in convincing me as well:
    http://springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.php

    There are a lot of other great options out there, and I'm not saying that the XD is the best gun for everyone. I'm actually considering a 1911 as well to go with my .45 CX4 Storm.

    As far as the caliber, at the time I was a little intimidated by the .45 and a little put off by the 9mm. The .40 has a little more stopping power then the 9mm, and seemed a better home defense/CCW round. I've done some more shooting (a lot more) since I bought my .40 three years ago, and honestly, I'd go .45 now. Yeah, it makes a bigger boom, and kicks more, but it is definitely the top home defense pistol round for a reason. I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of any gun but the end of a .45 barrel seems like a yawning chasm when it's pointing at you.

    On the other end of the scale is the good 'ol 12 gauge. My philosophy on that is that the sound of a 12 gauge pump action slide racking a round would make anyone stop what they're doing and poop themselves. This and the fact that should you have to fire it (and you should always be ready to commit to that if you're gonna point a gun at somebody) it has a good spread and so accuracy under stress is not as big a factor (nor is over-penetration).

    Bottom line, pick what makes you feel safe, and comfortable, and whatever you choose, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE! As discussed here in the 20/20 thread, an untrained shooter is almost worse than no shooter at all.
     
  19. greenLED

    greenLED Empty Pockets

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    I'd also consider what Kahr Arms has to offer. Their P9 model is nice in that overall size category.
     
  20. Carne Frio

    Carne Frio Empty Pockets

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    Unless someone gets training and periodic range time, a revolver is a good choice. 4 inch barrel in 357 magnum.
    Keep it loaded with regular 38spl hollow points. That way, if the shooter does begin to get training and experience,
    he can move up to 357 magnum. I have advised and helped a few beginners this way and all of them are happy.