1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

Small All Around First Aid Kit

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by adnj, Aug 11, 2010.

  1. cap6888
    • In Omnia Paratus

    cap6888 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    60

    If you were found to have a low blood sugar level (less than 70) and you had an altered mental status, or were unconcious, we would start an IV and give you some Dextrose (D50). It is a very quick fix, and will bring your blood sugar up very fast. Once the patient comes around, 9 times out of 10 they refuse transport. We just remove the IV and send them on their way.

    I can't speak for KMAC179, but where I work, diabetics are a dime a dozen. We give out D50 like it is going out of style.
     
  2. cap6888
    • In Omnia Paratus

    cap6888 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    60
    This shows a good point, just because you say IV does not mean to hang fluids. In my jurisdiction , we always use a saline lock., Fluids are only given if the patient's condition warrants it.

    If you had ALS intervention in the field, shouldn't an IV already been started? If we have a trauma pt who is compensating well enough in the field, do we need to start fluids, no. But if that pt suddenly starts circling the drain, I don't want to be behind the eight ball. If I already have an IV established, then I just have to start the fluids. Yes I know trauma is a "surgical disease" and we shouldn't needlessly push fuids until the holes are plugged. But I think this falls into the category of better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

    I agree with you 100%. If providers are properly trained, then they should know what interventions are necessary and which ones are not. The one sticking point I have with ER doctors is that they didn't see the patient before any treatments were given. I have brought in asthmatics who were so bad off, that I almost had to nasally intubate them. But with CPAP, inline neb treatment, and some terbutaline, they improve 100% by the time I roll into the ER. Then the doc asks me why I did all of those intervetions, because the pt does not look that bad now.

    As with everything, training and exerience are the key.
     
  3. robbyy

    robbyy Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    5
    I would make sure you had some latex/nitrille gloves, and a cpr breather. Also, some cord for a tourniquet or to improvise a stretcher or travois. A smallish knife would be a good idea as would a photon flashlight. Extra Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) can save a life if someone is having a severe reaction. I would ditch the otter box and find a silicone-nylon drawstring bag, lighter, compressible and waterproof.
     
  4. Mitchell

    Mitchell Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, it makes more sense with those two bits of additional information. I just wasn't clear why merely being diabetic was sufficient.

    Thanks.
     
  5. Blackheart

    Blackheart Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Hypoglycemic here. Some years back, I blacked out something like four times (might have been five) over about 18 months. EMS was always called, no one ever checked my blood sugar or started an IV. I got scooped up off the floor, tossed into the back of an ambulance, and hauled off to the ER.

    Wait a minute... THIS WAS AN OPTION?!!! WHY WAS I NOT TOLD ABOUT THIS?!!! I would always regain conciousness in the back of the ambulance. On the third time, when this started to get old, I would ask: "Any chance of dropping me at the next corner?" and the reply was always: "Nope, once you're in the ambulance, we gotta' take you to the ER."

    I'm kidding ...but the experiences were real, and no blood sugar check and no IV, ever. If someone would have noticed, at the time, that my blood sugar level was in the basement it would have saved me months of useless doctor's office visits and tests. Each time, by the time I got to the ER, my blood sugar was in the "normal" range.

    (no complaints here, I'm still alive so...)
     
  6. cap6888
    • In Omnia Paratus

    cap6888 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    60
    They ambulance jockeys were not paramedics (at least that is my assumption). If there were just EMTs, blood sugar check and IVs are not an option.

    In all seriousness, it would depend on your mental status, sorry for the unnecessary ride!

    If it was normal when you got to the ER, they may have given you glucose paste, which is slow acting, and that is why you made not have been as coherent until you got to the ER. But that is just some best guesses on my part as to what happened. Hope you don't have to call 911 again!
     
  7. Blackheart

    Blackheart Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Yes, I'm pretty sure they were all EMTs, so none of the "premium level" services. :)

    edit: Although, twice I did get a quick field EKG (I remember having to remove the sticky pads later, ouch).

    As I said, by the third time I was getting used to it, so my mental state was surprisingly good. I would come to thinking "Ah crap, not again!" ... but rules is rules, I can understand that.

    Ride was interesting the first couple times, after that... meh. :)

    So far as I know, I didn't receive anything. Glucose level recovered all on it's own (reproduced this later with a 4-hour test).

    Thanks... Yeah, me too. (This was many years ago, been fine since I found out what the problem was.)

    Okay, back to topic. (sorry)
     
  8. mzil

    mzil Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    I found a nifty single sheet, double sided, printable, free, download for basic survival skills in another thread here but was wondering if anyone knew of a basic first aid guide I could download for free that was similar in concept?
     
  9. Grizhicks

    Grizhicks Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    33
    2nd, mzil above...
     
  10. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    112
    How about just one line?

    " I will use treatments for the benefit of the ill in accordance with my ability and my judgment, but from what is to their harm and injustice I will keep them"

    .. feel free to print it out and keep it I am pretty sure it's out of copyright.
     
  11. Blackheart

    Blackheart Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Just took a quick look around the web and I was surprised at how little there is out there.

    Stopped by the American Red Cross site (surely they will have something). They publish a small first aid book (4-1/4" x 6.5", 80-some-odd pages), but it's apparently still in the first edition originally published in 1996 (oh, and it's $6). The ARC nevers seems to fail to disappoint.
     
  12. jehan60188

    jehan60188 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,789
    Likes Received:
    10

    so you're disappointed in a group that provided something that you can't find anywhere else?
     
  13. Blackheart

    Blackheart Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,967
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    No, I was disappointed by the fact that a not-for-profit organization doesn't freely distribute information and that the booklet that they do sell is 14 years old. Yes, I know, they need to get their funding from somewhere ($3.2 Billion in FY'08). It's not that I couldn't find booklets for sale anywhere else, I just wasn't looking.

    Also, I took their Basic First Aid class a couple years ago as sort of a refresher and was disappointed to find that, apparently, the ARC thinks that people need to be instructed on how to dial 911.
     
  14. mzil

    mzil Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    Thanks for attempting to help me, Blackheart.

    I have only just now found exactly what I want except that it prints on several pages (11), not just one that I can fold up and keep in a single credit card slot in my wallet. Through diligent work I could probably condense it through hours of effort, since I have no expertise in such matters, into a single, very small font, double sided sheet of printer paper, but I am still hoping to find a version that comes ready made in the wallet sized form I seek.

    This will give people a perfect example of what I'm looking for, at least in content:

    www.thebreakingnews.com/files/articles/band-aid-guide.pdf
     
  15. mzil

    mzil Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    I just attempted to print the first 6 pages of that^ on a single sheet of paper through an advanced option in my printer software ("print as image") [and could theoretically print the balance on the sheet's back side.]. The text is so small, however, I can barely read it without a magnifying glass, but at least I just did all this in a matter of seconds of work, not hours as I had feared.
     
  16. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    112
    It must be quite old because it's very out of date.
     
  17. mzil

    mzil Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    ^Are you a medical professional?

    I find it hard to believe the basic first aid a non-professional should apply prior to emergency medical personnel arrival has changed very much in the past decade, but if you'd care to share your specific knowledge to the contrary, because you work in that field, please do.
     
  18. Jean

    Jean Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    187
    Its a big world, and if your reading this you are likely to be, at worst, average.
     
  19. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    612
    Likes Received:
    112
    I am a specialist medic trained to Paramedic level for PHTLS with some other bits tacked on. If an admin or moderator wants to PM me I'll give them an official e-mail address where they can contact me and I'll send them my creds.

    On a quick read things that have changed since that leaflet:
    You treat catastrophic bleeds before dealing with the airway.
    CPR is the most out of date as it was revised in 2005, briefly in 2008 and again this month. Compressions are too shallow and far too slow for an adult, rescue breaths are no longer given for adults and the ratio is 30 compressions to 2 breaths or chest compressions only. Use of and calling for an AED is a prime consideration.
    Jaw thrust is a lot safer for airway opening than chin tilt which is no longer taught.
    Back slaps are given for airway obstruction before an abdominal thrust (No longer called a Heimlich Maneuver because of copyright issues) and then backslaps and ab thrusts are alternated.
    For ankle foot injuries losening or removing the shoe is not always a good idea.

    Lots of the other stuff is fine but really only useful as aide memoire. For example there a lot of contra indications that are omitted and some that are included would only have been found in a primary survey, and then would require some training to find, which isn't really covered in the leaflet at all. It doesn't describe how to perform a lot of procedures but simply names them.

    I think there are 2 schools of thought when it comes to learning from books without accompanying training:

    1) Anything is better than nothing
    2) A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

    The survival guide you carry is probably in the first heading as are Ikea flat pack instructions.

    A car handbook and 747 checklist probably in the latter.

    Any first aid book would have to be careful where it pitched itself if it was not designed to be a text book to accompany course work or a reference or aide memoire for someone already trained.

    A first aid book is like any text book it's a reference book that really works best alongside hands on training. It's possible a book could do more harm than good without any training. For example as that leaflet says one of the most basic first stages in first aid is to open the airway, there are a number of ways to do that and all of them can do a lot of harm if carried out inappropriately or incorrectly, it's very hard to learn that without real instruction and practice.

    All cars have a manual, all pilots use a checklist. It's kind of scary to think what would happen if someone tried to drive or fly just by using the manual. I have a few books but the 2 core books for my training are military PHTLS and the field reference. I am pretty sure it could be just as dangerous trying to practice first aid using just them.

    This leaflet is no where near as serious but still it is always the advice get some real training then decide what aide memoire you need with you.
    my earlier post was of course tongue in cheek but it's still very good advice :
    It was first said even before that First aid leaflet and it defintely isn't out of date. ;)
     
  20. mzil

    mzil Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    804
    Likes Received:
    1,173
    ^Your criticisms seem like a combination of falsehoods (perhaps because you admit to only having given it a quick read), minor quibbles re. procedural changes that may simply differ by region/country or because nuances in technique since 2003/4 have changed (which doesn't mean said procedures were "completely worthless" prior to 2005), and seem like a bunch of "armchair quarterbacking" of a document that admittedly is forced to be extremely brief, concise, and certainly not comprehensive, by any means. Most importantly, though, since you are either unwilling or incapable of providing me with a more recent alternative short document (with my stated needs) instead of this one I found on my own as a layperson, and instead only offer nay-saying, I'm still planning on going ahead with this "ancient" 2003 medical advice in lieu of nothing else.

    "You ought to consider formal classes/hands on training..." [paraphrased] . Maybe some time in the future, I will. I currently have neither the time nor the money.

    It was written for physicians, not lay people like myself facing an emergency situation they haven't received any professional training for, and at a time when medical procedures for society's slaves were treated as a separate category [despite the Oath's claims otherwise]. I'll pass.