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Shotguns for home defense... need recommendations.

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by greymethod, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. knestle

    knestle Banned

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    Re: Shotguns for home defense... need reccomendations.

    A shorter barrel = a wider pattern.

    Even 00, or #4 buck is too large for 'urban/indoor' use.
    #6 birdshot can have a pretty nasty effect without the danger of 'getting' your neighbor.
    If I remember correctly 00 buck is approximately the same size as a .22.
    I once accidentally fired a .22 indoors(yeah, I know, stupid, Stupid, STUPID!), it went through THREE walls and kept going!

    You must deal with a VERY determined class of felons. Maybe you have some personal experience.
    But my thinking is that unless said felon is to 'high' to fear ANYTHING, or a paid hit man intent on achieving a goal, the sound of a pump shotgun being readied will most likely have them exiting the premises post haste.

    If the shotgun is for home protection, I advise keeping it loaded and within reach of your bed at all times. An unloaded gun is nothing more than a blunt instrument.

    If there are children in the house, there should not be a gun there.
    The two are mutually exclusive until the children are old enough to be trained in the use of firearms.

    Just my opinion. YMMV.
     
  2. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    Also, see if you can get a copy of Gabe Suarez' combat shotgun video - it's got a lot of good info, little dogma or :censored:
     
  3. 9mm4me

    9mm4me Empty Pockets

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    DON'T listen to anyone that tells you to load it with birdshot. Birdshot is for little birds. Load it with 00 buck, it's easy to find and an effective threat stopper.

    The two most popular shotguns are the remington 870 and the mossberg 500. I have owned both and they both work great. I slightly prefer the 500 and it's a little cheaper. I found my 500 persuader (8 shot) for $180 at a gunshow.
     
  4. Spydermonkey

    Spydermonkey Loaded Pockets

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    00 buck pellets are roughly .32 caliber

    You can't go wrong with either the Mossberg or the Remington, I personally prefer the Remington. I dislike the cheap fit and finish feel of the Mossbergs and the position of the safety. I'm slightly biased I guess since I've had a 870 since I was 12yrs old and have one that rides next to me daily in the patrol car.

    Either gun will serve you well.
     
  5. knestle

    knestle Banned

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    So, you're saying it's OK to accidentally kill a neighbor, as long as you 'get' the bad guy?
     
  6. Synaptic Misfire
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Synaptic Misfire Loaded Pockets

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    Bag guys and walls have something in common any thing that can stop the former can penetrate the latter.

    Go here very visual for those who need it.

    Shotgun testing

    Go here for a great real world series of tests.

    The Box O' Truth

    I had a link to a guy being interviewed on the news after taking a face full of birdshot I can't find it but I will post when I can. The point is if you get shot in the face with birdshot you can do an interview, a face full of buckshot gets you a closed casket!!

    Too much bad info running around these days.
     
  7. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    I've seen (and treated) people who have been shot with everything from a .177 pellet to a 12ga shotgun slug (a Brennke, too). All hits were torso or abdomen, and all people survived.

    I've seen people (don't treat them, they're dead) people shot with everything from a .177 pellet to 12ga shotgun slugs. As I said, they died.

    There is no reliable stopper (including a 25mm cannon shell - it went right through a person and didn't detonate) or an RPG shell (one lodged in a Marine's chest, the surgeon who cut it out got a Silver Star). Ronald Reagan :censored: near died from a .22LR richochet that snuck in under his arm where his armor didn't go.

    Now, I have decided to carry a pistol that has a caliber that starts with .4 - and I load #4 Buckshot or 00 Buck in my home defense shotguns. After reading the Box o' truth tests on penetration, I'm not bothering with birdshot in the house. Even if I lived in an apartment, I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  8. Synaptic Misfire
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Synaptic Misfire Loaded Pockets

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  9. charlie fox

    charlie fox Loaded Pockets

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    +1 in a BIG way!
     
  10. knestle

    knestle Banned

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    I visited both links and read both articles by people who seem to have an obsessive desire to 'KILL the bad guy' regardless of how much they might endanger family member in other rooms, or neighbors in adjoining apartments.
    Considering family members and neighbors as 'collateral damage' as long as you 'make the kill' sounds pathological to me.

    Unless your intruder is too 'high' to respond to pain, or a VERY determined aggressor, the 'surface' damage inflicted by close range birdshot should be enough of a deterrent to send them packing.

    My idea of home defense is protecting my family first, and my possessions second, by 'deterring' intruders, not 'bagging' a bad guy and bragging about it at my wife's or child's funeral.

    "Kill them all and let God sort them out." might be an acceptable mindset in a war zone firefight, but inside your own home it is just plain stupidity!
     
  11. towheadedmule

    towheadedmule Loaded Pockets

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    Its all based on your needs and desires. I have a shotgun that I use, first round out is a pheasant load, but the next 5 are buckshot for the determined. My primary weapon though is a S&W MP15. It is what I prefer to carry. 2nd line is XD45. I like the one shot one kill method, but the option of high capacity.
    A lot depends of what amount of training you are willing to endure, and how much practice you will commit to. Go with that you are willing to commit.
     
  12. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    "Anyone care to point me in the right direction? Any help is appreciated."

    Please allow me point you to a different path.

    Have you considered moving to a better neighborhood? Sounds like even a marginal improvement would be vastly superior to your current circumstance, unless there remain a deeply-rooted underpinning for your steadfast insistence on moving to this deluge of chaos.

    With all due respect, you haven't provided much insight into WHY you need to move there. It would seem, at first glance, that your intent to lay roots, however temporary I would hope it would be, in the nest of the swarthy heathen seems to fly in the face of reason.

    Is your evidence of such activity anecdotal or from an official source?

    I can certainly understand limitations on choice based on socioeconomic status. I also deeply support all that hackneyed "right to keep and bear arms" rhetoric (I have several small arms myself), however a ménage à trois of crime, a firearm, and an attitude to readily use it bespeaks of the rapid degradation of our societal decency. It is a slippery slope best left to those empowered to buttress the proverbial sandbags that abridge the slide.

    I'm NOT trying to convince you to not buy one; just offering a different perspective. After all, you did state that "any help is appreciated." :evilgrin:

    I'll leave it up to the others to grind out the "gear" recommendation.
     
  13. Synaptic Misfire
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    Synaptic Misfire Loaded Pockets

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    Honestly I don't care about how you choose to engage in your own self defense, I got no dog in the fight. But throughout your post(s) you presume others have an attitude that frankly just does not exist. I think it's fairly asinine to broadly paint a group of people as irresponsible or bloodthirsty based on your misconceptions or perceptions. Additionally your scenarios are fraught with assumptions that I personally cannot afford to take, what if it is multiple intruders? It is becoming more common for criminals to be in possession of body armor, what then?

    Remember this professional thieves hit houses when they are most likely empty, during the day. They do this because a burglary charge is easy to plead out but if you have a run in with an occupant that gets violent the sentence becomes steep. If a criminal decides to knowingly enter an occupied residence they are aware of the consequences of an altercation and don't care or they are too altered to know better. Neither scenario is a good one, the latter being a person capable of unrestrained violence without rational fear or pain tolerances the former being a person prepared to do harm.

    This is neither the time or the thread to debate self defense philosophy and I apologize to all for the detour.

    Back on topic, there is some great advice in this thread but I am most curious to hear answers to 0dbm's questions he provides both an interesting and valid point.
     
  14. djturnz

    djturnz Empty Pockets

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    This is sort of a stream of consciousness post on shotguns:

    As has been said, the 870 or the 590/500 are your best bet. If money is an issue, get a Maverick 88, same as the Mossberg 500.

    If you want a Pistolgrip WITH a buttstock, go with the 870. The mossberg safety and action release are both made less acessible by using a pistol grip. Stay away from a pistol grip only.

    PRACTICE

    00buck is your best bet for self defense. Birdshot is for birds.
    You want to STOP THE THREAT, not kill the bad guy. That being said, KILLING THE BAD GUY WILL STOP THE THREAT.

    The main advantage that the 870 has over the 500 is you can add a magazine extension to an 870. If you buy a Mossberg with a 7 round magazine, it's no longer an issue.

    I own one of each, I much prefer the controls on the 500.

    EITHER ONE WILL OUTLAST YOU AND YOUR KIDS if you take care of it.

    Shotguns do need to me aimed, contrary to popular belief.

    The pattern will open up (my numbers might be a bit off here) 1inches for every 3 feet from the muzzle. Look at your house and see what the farthest possible shot will be, you will see why you must aim.

    00 buck will penetrate some walls, you must be aware of what is beyond your target. If you are in an apartment with people on each side, you may want to consider #1buck (or is it #4?).

    PRACTICE

    Birdshot is for little birds.

    Slugs will penetrate an engine block, way too much overkill for inside the house.

    You will fight with what is ON the gun and IN the gun. Side saddles are nice.

    When my shotgun was my HD gun, I kept the magazine loaded, chamber empty, action open. Saddle full of 00buck. I also had a cheap bandolear with pairs of 00buck (space between) hangin from the gun. Bandoleer goes across the body, gun in hand, drop on round of 00buck into the ejection port, close the action, ready to rock.

    PRACTICE

    BIRD SHOT is for birds.

    Pattern the gun with your 00buck load. Know how much it opens up at different distances.

    When you pattern on paper, you will see 9 small holes and one big hole, the big hole is the plastic shot cup.

    Birdshot is for birds.

    Practice "shoot one, load one. Shoot two, load two" drills at the range. Don't let the gun go dry.
     
  15. 9mm4me

    9mm4me Empty Pockets

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    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying :rolleyes:


    What I'm really saying is that he shouldn't listen to posters that have no idea what they are talking about.
     
  16. 9mm4me

    9mm4me Empty Pockets

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    Re: Shotguns for home defense... need reccomendations.

    This is a myth and generally just bad information. By racking your shotgun to attempt to intimidate the intruder you have:

    1. Just given away your position
    2. alerted the intruder that you are armed - If they are carrying a weapon they will have it readied toward the position that you have just given away
    3. alerted the intruder what kind of weapon you are carrying - a long gun - the intruder may now try and hide around a corner where he can attempt to grab the weapon when you come around the corner barrel first.

    Racking a shotgun to make someone run away is a tactical mistake.
     
  17. scríbhneoir
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    scríbhneoir Uber Prepared
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    Let's keep it civil, folks.

    :peg2:
     
  18. chaosmagnet
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    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

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    Re: Shotguns for home defense... need reccomendations.

    All firearms should be either in your immediate possession or locked up. If you observe proper firearms security you can be armed and keep your children safe.

    Since most burglars want to avoid confrontations with homeowners, an unsecured firearm in the home is just asking to be stolen and used in a crime.
     
  19. hovaczech

    hovaczech Loaded Pockets

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    If greymethod has recieved adequate recomendations on shotguns models for home defense we may want to consider this post complete in order to avoid further off topic posts.

    What say you Grey?
     
  20. houndawg75

    houndawg75 Empty Pockets

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    +1 on Either the Rem 870 or Mossy 500. I have an 870 SuperMag, and love it. Ammo choice is a different animal. I don't load mine up with 00 buck because I have 2 kids and over penetration is a big concern. I have personally tested it out and 00 buck will go though most common building products. I prefer 3-1/2" #4 turkey loads, smaller shot more power, and they hold a tighter pattern. They will beat the hell out of your shoulder though so I wouldn't recommend a lot of practice with the magnum loads. You shoot to stop the threat not necessarily to kill. Judging from the laws of physics, a magnum load to the chest will most definately stop most threats.