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Senate rejects expanded gun background checks

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by UnlikelyEngineer, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. JB in SC

    JB in SC Loaded Pockets

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    The background check amendment had not been vetted properly. Laws have nuances that sometimes cause unintended consequences. It was a bad piece of legislation.
     
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  2. legoman0721

    legoman0721 Loaded Pockets

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    I wish more people understood this. There's so much misunderstanding of the current laws and what this new law would have done. I'm very glad it didn't pass.
     
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  3. JohnN

    JohnN Loaded Pockets

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    It is *already* illegal for felons to *have* firearms. Regardless of how they get them.

    Felons will buy from felons and they won't run a government background check no matter what the law says.

    Have I mentioned criminals don't follow laws?

    -john
     
    UnlikelyEngineer likes this.
  4. Six String

    Six String Loaded Pockets

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    I surrender. :). Appreciate the input and that no one called me names or hung a label on me.
     
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  5. JHGM

    JHGM Dinosaur Supervisor

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    I hate being labeled or put into a group...

    If I you ever catch me doing that call me out on it ASAP...

    It's a war for hearts and minds.
     
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  6. keith1234
    • In Omnia Paratus

    keith1234 Loaded Pockets

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    I think this is the one point that eveyone making these laws seems to miss is that criminals don't care what the law says.
     
  7. UnlikelyEngineer

    UnlikelyEngineer Loaded Pockets

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    Only not liking this because we shouldn't see it as surrendering or winning or losing. Regardless of the conclusion, I think winning is becoming more informed than you were before. If that's how you feel, you've won in my book :)

    This is why EDCForums is great. The people here are friendly enough and mature enough to have a debate without resorting to aggression or antagonizing each other.
     
  8. HawkeyePierce

    HawkeyePierce Loaded Pockets

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    First time posting this thread. Nice job of remaining civil and respectful in a controversial topic.

    Hugs all around.
     
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  9. joelbnyc

    joelbnyc Loaded Pockets

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    Good point. The Constitution is purposely difficult to alter. But yeah, the fiscal cliff/ sequester is one example of how completely incapable Congress is of doing their jobs lately. For instance under sequester, critical defense programs and less important defense programs alike all have their budgets cut by a percentage, instead of preserving funding for the critical ones. This was supposed to enforce agreement because failing and triggering it would be so insanely stupid, harmful, and inefficient. It was never supposed to actually happen. Every General in every branch could easily agree on certain critical programs that shouldn't be touched. This isn't a partisan issue at all but a common sense one, yet still Congress failed to do their jobs and we all suffer.

    People certainly have a right to fight for their values and opinions. But I suspect our Representatives and the apparatus behind them keep things at a level of hysterical polarization on purpose. Being in a constant, urgent do-or-die ideological war with our own countrymen makes it much easier for Congress and Senators to raise massive amounts of money from contributors. This isn't some conspiracy, it's just the economics of our political system.


    Sent from Winterfell using a Raven
     
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  10. Gryffin
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Gryffin Loaded Pockets

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    OK, so... how is the guy who's selling you a gun supposed to know which category you fall into, without some sort of background check?
     
  11. JHGM

    JHGM Dinosaur Supervisor

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    Supposed to know...

    Do you mean legally or morally??

    I don't recall the auto dealer checking my driving record the last time i bought a car...

    I wasn't subjected to a "universal background check" when I bought my last knife...

    It's spring and my yard needs fertilizing; do I need a special permit for that?

    My point is, it is not a sellers obligation to know what the intent of the buyer is...

    Personally, I would not sell a firearm to someone who I felt might misuse it.

    But then again, I wouldn't let my wife beating neighbor borrow my baseball bat either.

    Hypothetical... My neighbors are good people.
     
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  12. Gryffin
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Gryffin Loaded Pockets

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    Both.

    You might not feel it's the seller's obligation to know the intent of the buyer, but in the current reality we find ourselves in, he :censored: sure should give it a thought, if only to cover his own @$$.

    But... if you're the seller, why do you have that obligation?

    Thank you for proving my point.
     
  13. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    Your confusing choice and obligation. It is his choice to not sell it to someone, he is not obligated to make that choice.

    Also, whats the point in trying to guess a buyers intent, when intent can change at a moments notice?
     
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  14. JHGM

    JHGM Dinosaur Supervisor

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    I only have that obligation because of my self-imposed moral code...

    IANAL, but I don't think a seller has any legal responsibility for what may be done with the item sold.

    A little confused..

    What point was proven?
     
  15. Nilloc

    Nilloc Loaded Pockets

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    I don't see how anyone who is pro 2A could have your line of thinking. The two just don't seem to go together.

    And for the record, I don't think background checks should be performed at all. Criminals certainly aren't getting them done, so all you're doing is forming a paper trail (which our gov't could eventually use in a destructive manner down the road) for law abiding citizens and throwing a tax on them for doing something that is Constitutionally protected to begin with.
     
  16. Six String

    Six String Loaded Pockets

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    But, if that's true, then I must be anti-2A. Yet, if that's true, how do you reconcile the fact that I own multiple firearms, have a CCL and carry? Quite the conundrum, huh. LOL. Dude, chill. I told you I give up. Lets move on. Peace.
     
  17. mwestjeeper

    mwestjeeper Loaded Pockets

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    What is often missed, while claiming that criminals don't go through background checks, is that the loopholes that exist today provide a vast pool of guns for the felon to buy, at every day 'low' prices. Wide variety, priced well. Background checks for all transfers? The # of guns available to felons just dropped by millions. The # of guns they can buy, without knowing another guy with a trunk full of stolen ones, at 500% of MSRP, just dropped to almost 0. That is the point, and the point that is often missed. Nobody is insinuating that felons will TRY to buy through the background check process and be turned away. Rather, it is about drying up the pool of easily and readily available guns to the felon or otherwise incompetent person who can't pass the checks.
     
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  18. SAKplumber
    • In Omnia Paratus

    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Just reading this thread. Thought I'd throw this out there since Boston is all we're hearing about right now. Here's one for the good guys:D
    http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
     
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  19. SAKplumber
    • In Omnia Paratus

    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    You, sir, win the internet.
     
  20. SAKplumber
    • In Omnia Paratus

    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    This is a truism. Laws do not prevent crimes. period.