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Reality of carrying.

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jackknife, Sep 16, 2017.

  1. MedusaOblongata

    MedusaOblongata Loaded Pockets

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    If you compare the number of times you gun has saved your life to the number of times you've dealt with the expense and inconvenience of carrying it, it might not seem worth it. What would happen if you were to ask all of the dead people how much inconvenience it would have been worth to have had the ability to protect themselves when they needed it? [ Inappropriate content removed - jag-engr ]

    Sure, sometimes people are killed by bear and rural crocodile; dogs, mountain lions, wolves, and starvation kill some people sometimes. Perhaps it would be sad to kill an animal, but better him than me.
    But most of the people killed, in my country, yours, and every other, for as far back as anyone has records, are killed by two legged critters. Some of them are armed one way or another, legally or not, some travel in packs, some attack by surprise. Maybe firing at fellow humans seems totally unnatural to you, and that's not a bad thing, but when they're trying to kill you and your family, do you want the ability to fire at them, or would you rather just feel relieved you don't have to make the terrible decision whether to do anything "unnatural?"
     
    #41 MedusaOblongata, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2018
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  2. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    I understand what you are saying and totally agree that one should be able to protect themselves, that's human instinct.

    If our gun laws changed tomorrow, I bet that the majority of the population over here would still not EDC one, the weight, bulk etc versus it's use would put most people off,....a flashlight is far smaller and more likely to be used yet most folk don't carry one on their person.
     
    #42 earthman, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2018
  3. this_is_nascar

    this_is_nascar Loaded Pockets

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    I live in NJ, so this discussion has no meaning, unfortunately.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Durandal64

    Durandal64 Loaded Pockets

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    There are some excellent opinions here and I'll try to keep that clear headedness going.
     
  5. weklund

    weklund Loaded Pockets

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    My buddy Allen built this Kydex holster for me. He does excellent work and is very prompt with building orders. He has made several holsters for me including mag holders. Send him an email with your needs and he will respond shortly. Great guy and highly recommended.

    http://www.backupholsters.com/

    [​IMG]
     
    #45 weklund, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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  6. J_C
    • In Omnia Paratus

    J_C Loaded Pockets

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    This is also true of the US. Most people don't carry a firearm on them or with them. Some do.

    In my state, which is in the top 10 list of states ranked by total number of permits issued, only about 9% of the total population have handgun permits. Not all permit holders carry regularly, and of course some non-permit holders do carry. Nobody I know personally carries a handgun. I don't either, for that matter.

    You may be getting a skewed impression of how many people carry firearms in the US, because your sample population (those of us posting here) is people who have registered on a gear forum and are actively posting on a handgun subforum thereof. The posters in this forum, which is about everyday carry, are likely to carry firearms.

    This is probably not the ideal place to have this discussion. It's like walking into a steak restaurant and asking everyone why they are eating meat.
     
  7. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    This is an ideal place to have this discussion.
    It's one of the very few places to trade ideas & philosophies on gun carrying without the whining & crying of closed minded ignorant anti-gun people hijacking the topic.
    There have been many good questions, and good answers, furthering a more realistic discussion not only in one state or country, but all over the planet.
    Carry Always, if you are fortunate to live somewhere where the state or government respects your right to do so.
    Be responsible, know the laws, know the hardware, most important, know yourself.
     
  8. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    The "Be responsible" part is probably the biggest down fall here,....there are a fair amount of stupid, hot headed people in the UK, I certainly wouldn't want them to have a permit/easy access to firearms.
     
  9. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    There are a lot of stupid hot headed people everywhere - and criminals who have absolutely no compunctions about assaulting you, robbing you, raping your daughter and killing your wife.
    That's the reason we own and carry guns.
    Legal carriers who commit crimes with their guns - almost never.
    Legal carriers are the last people you need to worry about.
    It's interesting to talk to people from countries other than the US.
    But doesn't it occur to you that criminals there will kill or maim you with whatever they can (bats, knives, trucks, acid attacks, while you have lost your right to defend yourself, home and family from them?
    This is what scares me here in the US.
    Close to half of the people here subscribe to the fallacy that making guns illegal will make us safe.
    Many of those would likely not trust themselves with firearms, so the logic is that nobody else should have them either.
    Safety and self defense is a personal responsibility in every aspect.
     
    #49 kukla, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
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  10. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    I think that a lot of folks in the UK and other countries where firearms have practically been eradicated already subscribe to the theory of, less availability = less likely hood of a crazy getting hold of a gun in the first place.
    I suspect that the theory of 'an armed society, is a polite society' is what many folks in the States subscribe to,......considering that the availability of firearms isn't/hasn't been a problem for years, why is there still so many shooting incidents over there then??
     
  11. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    It's a social & cultural problem.
    ............stupid, hot headed people, and many people with a "score" to settle, sometimes taking it out on groups rather than individuals.
    We also have an ever growing population of what we commonly refer to as "snowflakes", "unique & wonderful" (according to their parents, upbringing, and schooling), individuals who "melt down" at the slightest "slight" or loss, and because they felt so "entitled" to that girlfriend, or sports ribbon or trophy, when they lose they go nuts.
    They never learned the skills to cope, to deal with disappointment or bullying, and consequently lash out as a result.
    We are becoming a country of liberal "wimps".

    Much violent crime committed with guns here are committed in regions where guns are virtually banned (Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City, the list goes on).
    Criminals don't observe bans or "gun free zones" (which include, largely, SCHOOLS).
    Those are places where they can get away with it, because they know that none of the law abiding citizens there can stop them.
    The law abiding citizens in those same regions are likely to observe those bans & gun free a zones.
    The result is criminals running rampant and un-challenged.
    These are just some of the reasons that pro-2nd amendment people here are so adamant about our rights to own guns.
    We will NOT bend to the miscreants AND POLITICIANS who are responsible for working at disarming us.
     
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  12. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    We have the same social change here too, youngsters who feel that they are entitled to a great job/fame/whatever without putting much effort in,.....when I were at school all boys were steered towards learning a trade, that were the natural thing to do, not many now would even consider plumbing, carpentry etc.

    Thankfully gun crime is still very rare over here, in part that's down to their lack of availability I believe, sure there's a 'black market' but only the very few criminals have the contacts and money to get hold of them. Youth knife/gang crime is certainly a problem, using scooters to nick the phones out of folks hands, knowing that the police will stop chasing them because they might get injuries/die is a complete joke in my opinion.

    Yes, all places have their problems, a small minority of the population not being good humans.
     
  13. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

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    Technically there isn't, as proven by the FBI and CDC stats over the last 20 years. But the media and people that spout uneducated opinions about firearms and the majority of their users paint a better picture when gathering clicks and views that pay the bills. There is also no set or sufficient standardized tracking for defensive gun use or presentation that stops and prevents crime either. Murder is murder to a coroner and the cause of death, so unless you pull the specific report and see the context, it's just a "another gun related shooting fatality."

    I have not vetted the information below, but posting for discussion. The stuff I have reviewed in the past parallel most of the numbers presented below as fact by comparison, but can't say to what +/- variance accurately right now.

    From the Thomas Sowell Foundation
    There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.0009% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
    • 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
    • 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
    • 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
    • 3% are accidental discharge deaths.
    So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
    • 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
    • 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
    • 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
    • 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

    So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.
    This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
    Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

    Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.
    But what about other deaths each year?
    • 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
    • 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
    • 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
    Now it gets good:
    • 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
    • 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.
     
  14. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    I'm only really going by what is shown on the main news channels over here, the several horrific school shootings, crazy gun men firing from hotel windows into crowds below or whilst in shopping areas. Sorry but this just doesn't happen over here (thankfully) so hearing about it even more than once seems like a lot to me.
     
  15. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    I suspect the news channels in the UK have much in common with the news outlets here, very liberal and supportive of the democrat (or equivalent) party.
    Their goal is to make money and disperse an anti gun agenda.
    "If it bleeds, it leads" is their philosophy, therefore the more heinous crimes get the priority coverage, then the liberal democrats leap on it and scurry to use it to benefit their agenda for more gun control and socialism. (Never let a good tragedy go to waste").
    What we rarely hear on the news here is the concentration of gun related murders & injuries in cities where guns are severely restricted, such as patientcero mentioned above in post #53.
    Those cities have the highest crime rates of all, and many of them are also "sanctuary cities".
    You see, it doesn't further their gun control agenda to announce that gun control doesn't work.
    Their goal really has nothing to do with crime or safety, it has everything to do with disarming the law abiding public.
    As a side note, unintentional non-boating related drownings in the US average over 3,500 yearly - nearly 10 per day.
     
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  16. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

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    You sure about that?
    https://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

    • At least 128 people were killed in the Paris and Saint-Denis shootings and bombings, French officials said. Saint-Denis is home to the national stadium where the soccer match was being played.
    The worst carnage occurred at Bataclan, with at least 80 left dead. A journalist who was at a rock concert there escaped and told CNN: "We lied down on the floor not to get hurt. It was a huge panic. The terrorists shot at us for 10 to 15 minutes. It was a bloodbath." Julien Pearce didn't hear the attackers speak, but he said one friend who escaped heard them talk about Iraq and Syria. Later, he said the men were speaking French. Two men dressed in black started shooting and after wounded people fell to the floor, the gunmen shot them again, execution-style, he said.

    Don't forget Manchester in 2017, one of three events in a 7 week period in the UK killing 37 and injuring over 500 combined. Again, it goes back to indoctrination and what I don't know won't hurt me and that is what ALL mainstream media does around the world. How much longer before you will be at the mercy of information censorship like China and N Korea? They have already found the rabbit hole and starting looking for the bottom...
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail

    So who decides what is "terrorist material? Depending who you ask in the US, viewing 2nd amendment related anything (gun channels on social media, magazines, etc.) or NRA related anything is affiliated as terrorist propaganda in many peoples minds. Don't think so? Just follow the MarchForOurLives hashtag across social media and see what people who are overwhelmingly using and promoting via their first amendment right in an effort to change or remove others 2nd amendment right.

    The very first two things the founders believed was crucial to the this country's future, and two of the few amendments to clearly state "the right of the people" in their words while outlining our freedoms. Either support and live by them all, or none, you can't cherry pick the constitution to suit your agenda like condiments on your hamburger to suit your tastes for the day. Don't like them, change them the right way, there is a provision in the constitution for that as well. Until then, taking away or severely limiting how I or my neighbor chooses to defend ourselves as law abiding citizens. This (banning guns) will not solve the gang related crime in Chicago, East LA or some person dealing with deranged thoughts down the street and their desire to impose their will through violence on another next week, next month or next year by any means they deem necessary.
     
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  17. earthman

    earthman EDC Junkie!!!

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    Yes I'm sure about that, most of the gun related stuff you have found there is in Europe, I'm talking about the UK, that's a separate little island, thankfully our boarder control folk are pretty good at preventing firearms from entering the UK.

    The World is becoming a more dangerous place in general, I grant you that, back in the eighties the IRA were making home made bombs and leaving them around the UK, now it's another 'organisation',....gun ownership wouldn't stop that.

    Like I've said, we do have a bit of a knife crime problem, there are some groups of people who want to 'ban all knives' to save our children, like the groups you have on guns over there. Again, proof that guns are not really a problem over here otherwise those people would be jumping on that bandwagon too.
     
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  18. Mark_Trail

    Mark_Trail Loaded Pockets

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    ^
    Maybe I’m wrong but handguns are practically 100%-no-way-Jose for all normal citizens? Long guns ’haps but with lot a teeth sucking and clear hunting purpose?

    I seem to recall this change happening in early ’90’s or so. Some shooting somewhere and a total knee jerk reaction? And actually demanded by media/public and any calming measures proposed by civil servants over ruled??


    Sent from my NSA monitored iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. bruno_go

    bruno_go Loaded Pockets

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    Thanks.
     
  20. Telstar

    Telstar Loaded Pockets

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    I live in one of the most humid, muggy, hot and inhospitable States in the union. If you want to carry a gun you can manage it, you just have to stop making excuses. Carrying a gun may not be fun or enjoyable but it is a weapon after all and not a carnation to be worn on the lapel. In the 1980s I ccw'd a full size smith model 66 each and every day, in the 90's a Browning Hipower, in the 2000's a glock23, 2010 Glock26 and in 2018..a Glock43. I have carried a gun daily for more than 30 years and I have carried one not because I like it but because I desire a specific level of preparedness. I wont make excuses, I will simply get it done in whatever way is most practical. I am not as strong, agile or mobile as I use to be but I still manage to carry a gun. You can too, if you really want to... but you have to stop whining about it.
     
    Last edited by Telstar, Mar 27, 2018
    #60 Telstar, Mar 27, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018