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Opinions on M&P Shield vs Glock 19 for concealed carry.

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Cr0wb4r, May 6, 2015.

  1. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    Shield is nice. In that size and for IWB though, I prefer the Walther PPS. For pocket carry, I have a Kahr PM9
     
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  2. Semper Praesidio

    Semper Praesidio Loaded Pockets

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    I carry a Shield and love the concealability and accuracy of it. Getting ready to drop some cash on it this summer and get an Apex kit installed to improve the trigger pull.

    I have found I prefer the ergos of the M&P line over Glock and I'm more accurate with M&P's. But I've talked with several people who carry Glock and the 19 is a popular option so it can certainly be done.

    Semper Praesidio - "Always On Guard"
     
  3. NOC
    • In Omnia Paratus

    NOC Loaded Pockets

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    I think it is a common dilemma for many of us - large capacity and better control vs. concealability of the firearm you choose. With time, you can manage to inconspicuously carry a full size pistol year round, but it does take practice and additional investment in good IWB (for example) holster, slightly larger shirts and pants, etc. Not to mention that for some of us (including myself) having a larger set of clothing has a strange side effect of "growing" into them. :)

    I would ask this - what is the objective here? Is it the only pistol you will have, intended to be "all-purpose"? If so, I'd go for 19 and just learn to carry it. I have carried Beretta 92 and P250c, P229 thick SIGs full-time, in a summer heat, and have managed just fine. I am a medium built guy and IWB worked great for me. If you need ability to draw from sitting position - compression under arm carry holster shirts work great too. Kangaroo rigs are also a good choice for that purpose and conceal well. However, in either case - forget about slim fit shirts. There are some considerations with larger guns as well - for IWB carry you will need a purpose made sturdy belt. You need to factor-in the weight of the firearm and a spare mag(s), which in medium to full size add up to quite a heavy load. Visits to the "oval office" also become quite challenging :) (Sorry folks - I had to mention it, as there were incidents of some people dropping or leaving their firearms behind. Not that I have done it, but it did happen to some). This is all to be factored-in if you plan for situations, requiring to engage several threats with fairly high probability of occurrence. From the choices you have picked, it does not seem to be the case.

    Now, if the main purpose of the firearm is self-defense in low risk environment, with comfort and concealment being top priorities, I would choose the smaller Shield. Light weight, small size and still capable of helping you get out from tight situation without a need for 30-45 rounds. Let's face it - if subcompacts were as effective as MIB's Noisy Cricket, who would carry a full size pistol? :)

    Reference: Noisy Cricket (MIB Standard Issue):
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  4. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Out of those, g19. But I'd look at an m&p 9c. It's a little smaller than a 19 but holds several more rounds than the shield.

    Personally, I just carry a full size m&p and don't have problems, even in summer clothes. If I wanted something smaller, I probably still wouldn't bother with the single-stacks. I've got a p938 that I don't carry anymore for that.
     
  5. Focus

    Focus Loaded Pockets

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    The struggle is real. I don't have those exact guns, but I am 5'9" and about 180. I carry at 3:00 and with less than FBI cant. The height of the gun (from the top of the rear sights to the bottom of the grip) is a major factor in concealment for me. I have slightly wider than average shoulders so the width of the gun is not as important (within reason). I have an M&P 9c (with Apex FSS) which is in between the g19 and the g26 in size. That 9c with the flush fit magazine is about the biggest gun I can conceal at 3:00 without a vest, coat, or sweatshirt. I wear it probably 30%-40% of the time. I also have a Sig p938. I can wear that gun and carry two mags wearing any type of clothing in any environment and be totally comfortable and worry free about printing. Slide width is part of it, it reduces the "bulge", but height also is a major factor when bending over picking up kids or whatever. The Sig just does not print. The reason I say all this is because the shield is actually slightly longer than the 9c. Yes it is thinner, but on me, the handle would still print considerably when bending over. I have always wanted a shield, but it just doesn't provide any advantage over what I have. I am an external safety kind of guy, so my M&P and my Sig both have thumb safeties. If that were not the case I would probably go the g26 route. 10+1 and a 17rd reload is pretty sweet. Then I would get a g43 for more discreet environments. If external safeties are your thing the 9c and p938 are about as good as it gets in my opinion. Disclosure: I have been really looking at H&K's lately...I should stop it...

    Edit: One more thing. I don't know if this is a factor or not, but don't let the initial cost of the firearm be a big factor. If you are doing it right, you will spend much more on good carry systems, training, and ammunition than the original price of the firearm. Get the gun that meets all your needs and that you shoot well. If it is a couple hundred more bucks initially, it will be worth it.
     
  6. notlimah

    notlimah Loaded Pockets

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    IMO if you shoot the Glock more accurately, then go with the Glock and get the appropriate holster and clothing to make it comfortable and concealable. Everyone will have their opinion on which gun may be better for you (or them) but if you shoot one better then the other, to me, that's an easy choice. Using the 'best' gun isn't as good as using the gun and you use the best! Just my .02 cents! YMMV! Good luck!
     
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  7. gazz98

    gazz98 Loaded Pockets

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    I thought your title was a typo. I would have guessed you meant 19 vs M&P 9c like moostapha pointed out. If you have the body size to carry the 19, I'd get that. Otherwise, nothing wrong with the Shield. My wife carries a Shield in 9mm. I carry a Ruger SR9c myself. If you have an opportunity, try the M&P 9c. Size wise, it is between the two mentioned essentially in most regards (measurements, capacity, etc). If you go for a CPL/CCW you will probably get two handguns, a compact/subcompact for the the t-shirt/shorts days and a fullsize/compact for the rest of year (depending on where you live).
     
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  8. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    Comparing the G19 and the Shield is really an apples to oranges comparison. Double Stack:Single Stack, Compact:Sub-Compact ... the incongruity goes on.

    The Shield will carry more conveniently and comfortably for most people. The G19 will provide more firepower.

    Figure out which one you prefer to carry. Then, carry it every day whenever and where ever you can. Train, train, train.

    If you're carrying for self-defense, don't both with trigger jobs and fancy sights. You won't notice either of those in a gunfight. Instead, train with your firearm until it is, quite literally, an extension of your body and points as naturally as your index finger.

    Did I mention ... train ... and then train some more.
     
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  9. Cr0wb4r

    Cr0wb4r Loaded Pockets

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    Well then, if initial price shouldn't determain what you get, any H&K's that fit into the same area as the G19? :)

    Part of what makes the decision so hard is that I intend to do some of the Goruck firearms training, and I read somewhere that they use 19's. They also say not to bring any pocket guns, which I don't know if the shield falls into that category or not. The worry is that if I rent a 19, I am going to be practicing with a 19, not the shield. Sure the principles may be the same, but something tells me that after you have put 400 rounds through one firearm you are going to know a few of the quirks, and are going to be pretty familiar with the gun.

    Are there any good IWB holsters that would fit either the shield or the glock? I am thinking about getting a gun belt, IWB holster, and then a red "training" gun replica of one of each and see if one has any size differences, and see how they carry. Ideas?
     
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  10. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Comparable h&ks would be the USP compact and p30, unless I'm mistaken. They're very different guns from both the g19 and shield. I still want one of them, but I'm not sure of I'd ever carry it. Some people swear by DA/SA, but I always throw the first shot after giving up , and concluding something is broken, but I've only shot range guns. Obviously, that's a training issue, but I'm okay with just not carrying them for now.

    If you need a specific gun for some training you're going to do, I think that means you need to find different training. But, the g19 is still good. And, yes, the shield is a pocket gun.

    It takes a lot more than 400 rounds to learn a gun's quirks. I didn't switch to carrying my m&p until I'd done 2000 dry presentations and 1000 shots on a range. I didn't feel like I'd really started to know my 1911 until I was finishing up my second case, and I obviously feel like I've got a lot left to learn despite describing that gun as shooting on rails.

    Based on my experiences with rifles, I'd say "I know this gun" comes at closer to 10,000 rounds and "I know rifles" comes at closer to 40,000 rounds, if you train right. I haven't gotten close to that with pistols, but I'd bet it's similar.

    There are good iwb holsters available for all of these guns. Lots of them. Of the ones I've tried, I really like cook's holsters for hip or behind the hip carry and these things that some guy on youtube makes for AIWB. But, there are a LOT of good ones, and you WILL try a few before you find out what works for you. I, for instance, had to try 2 or 3 kydex/leather hybrids before I realized that I prefer straight kydex. Fortunately, I was able to return all but one.

    It sounds, to me, like you really just need to go try some.
     
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  11. Cr0wb4r

    Cr0wb4r Loaded Pockets

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    Sorry, I wasn't super clear on that part. From what I understand, in the goruck firearm training day, if you don't have a pistol with a large enough magazine, you can rent a g19, and train with that during the firearms day. To go along with what you said, I don't see much reason to train with a gun that you won't be carrying.
     
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  12. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    If I understand your statement correctly, I'm going to have to disagree. Every firearm has its own manual of arms. Training with a firearm that is significantly different from your defensive weapon confuses your muscle memory. That's probably my only gripe with my Walther PPS. The magazine release is different from virtually every other semi-auto that I own. As a consequence, I have - on more than one occasion - attempted to drop the magazine on one of my other pistols by pressing on the trigger guard.

    If the opposite happened in a firefight ... (more) bad things could happen in very short order.
     
  13. NOC
    • In Omnia Paratus

    NOC Loaded Pockets

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    Based on this approach Marines' Scout Snipers, firing on average 1500 rounds through their 10 week training do not know their rifles at all. And putting 40,000 rounds through a rifle is quite excessive, don't you think? Good accuracy for a rifle barrel would last for, say 5000 to 8000 rounds? At 10,000 you can switch a barrel already if we are talking about .308 or 30-06. So, it takes 4 barrels to be confident with a rifle, then? Hardly the right training, in my opinion.
     
  14. Cr0wb4r

    Cr0wb4r Loaded Pockets

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    Out of curiosity, does anyone one know if there are any legal issues on what I plan to do here ---^ ? I have yet to take out my CCW permit, but a training gun isn't a weapon. Any possible legal issues with carrying "the likeness of a firearm" concealed?
     
  15. notlimah

    notlimah Loaded Pockets

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    You'd need to check your local and state laws on that one!
     
  16. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    I think you did, or perhaps I was unclear.

    If a training class requires a specific weapon, I think that makes it a bad class. Buying or renting something that you might not carry just to take a class seems backwards.

    I get that a class run by glock will probably require a glock (for example), but apart from that, it just doesn't make sense to me.

    I'm all for keeping a similar manual of arms on your carry weapons. I've watched very well-trained and well-classified shooters screw up mag releases, safeties, etc. in matches when they switch from, say, an XD to a CZ.

    I meant 40,000 total, not through one rifle. And, idk what's normal. The anschutz I learned on took a minimum of 150 rounds a day, 6 days a week, 9 months a year for like 5 years, plus matches and sporadic training the other 3 months....before it started acting up. And the problems were with the action. The barrel would still shoot the same groups as the day I got it when the action worked.

    And I sure hope marine snipers fire more than 150 rounds per week in training. That sounds.....more like a day.
     
  17. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    Yup, I misunderstood what you were saying. Although, most classes that I have attended as a civilian have fairly strict criteria. They don't want some guy showing up with a pocket derringer to a battle pistol course or bringing a .22 Cricket to a long-range, precision rifle course.

    Although I am not a Marine Scout Sniper, I suspect the 1500 rounds fired during the Marine Scout Sniper Course are all fired over the course of a few days as opposed to evenly spread over the entire ten weeks. Still, I agree, 1500 rounds isn't all that many.
     
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  18. Focus

    Focus Loaded Pockets

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    I have been looking at the USP, but I am sitting still for awhile. I have everything I need in the carry department.

    Based on what you said about the training you intend to take I would forgo the single stacks. Single stacks in an advanced class are a pain unless you bring 10 mags. Its not the combat reloads that slow you down, its poking fresh rounds in those spent mags. The little single stacks are great for concealing when concealing is the first priority, but they are a compromise in every other area. Don't get me wrong, I love my p938. And I have taken a couple classes with it. But I was constantly counting how many rounds I could shoot at each stage with out burning up all my reloads and not being able to finish each exercise. It degraded my ability to focus.

    I would highly suggest getting some range time with the m&p 9c, glock 19 and glock 26. I like the size of the m&p. It is in between the two glocks. It holds 12 rds with a flush fit mag, but accepts the full 17 rounders too. 3.5 inch barrel isn't 4+, but it gives you a decent sight radius. With the new triggers S&W are putting in them, it might be the perfect fit for your use.

    By the way, I tried some of those grip extenders that fill the gap between the end if the grip and the end of the 17rd mags. In my experience it was bad news. Yes it looked better and felt marginally better, but the mag would not fall reliably during reloads. I didn't notice it until I was doing combat reloads in a class and I had to keep yanking the mag out. I finally stopped and thought, "why is this happening?" I pulled the extenders off and it solved all the problems.

    The g19 is a great gun though too. It will be a bit less concealable depending on your body shape.

    Go shoot them. You will know.

    I like the hybrid style holsters. Of the hybrids, I prefer the Stealthgear Onyx for its superior comfort and the "clunk" sound it makes when I reholster. Letting me know it is solid and retaining my weapon properly. There you go. My .02 for what it is worth.
     
  19. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah....1500 rounds with a new rifle of you already knew how to shoot is different, though. So, idk where that particular course falls in their training.
     
  20. Hector Leal

    Hector Leal Loaded Pockets

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    I have both. Both chambered in 9mm. Here's how I see it... During the summer months with thinner clothing, I'll definitely carry the shield in a holster or pocket carry. The 19 is just as concealable DEPENDING on the holster, what you normally wear and your build. During the winter months concealing a g19 is easy since I have a jacket on. Both great guns and 1 million different opinions on capacity aside, I'd go for the Shield in a heartbeat and just carry an extra mag. I'm a glock guy as well. I'd even take the Shield over glocks new single stack in .380/9mm.

    [​IMG]