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Opinions on DA/SA vs. DAO and Swapping Guns

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by ?uesto, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. ?uesto

    ?uesto Loaded Pockets

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    I'm sure plenty of people decided not to open this thread because of the title, but for people who have been in this situation before, I'm sure you can relate and hopefully can offer some advice.

    I have a Sig P229 DA/SA. I learned to shoot on an old Smith Revolver and I'd like to be able to develop my skills as a pistol shooter on a similar trigger (heavy and consistent trigger). I love shooting revolvers, and should have considered the option of DAO autos when looking for a first gun for myself. While I love the trigger on my Sig, I think I'd rather have a gun that only fires in double action, at least as a first gun, and one that I'm going to shoot a lot.

    So now this begs the question; do I send my gun to Sig to have it converted? Has anyone done this? Any idea on cost? Sell my gun and get a gun that shoots DAO? I'd love a Sig (mine or maybe something new), but I'm also open to other suggestions and stories.

    I'm going to post this over at Sig Talk as well to get a variety of opinions. I imagine some of you fine Sig shooters are on there as well. (For the record, I don't think I'm interested in Sig's DAK. I want "squeeze the trigger -> bang -> repeat" with the same consistency. Don't think I'm interested in striker fired Glocks and the like).

    Thanks!
    -?
     
  2. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Before you decide, try the Kahr product: a long, smooth, and light trigger pull. I own and still carry my P229 along with the Kahr MK40 as backup.
     
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  3. Matthew03

    Matthew03 Loaded Pockets

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    I own, and carry DA/SA, SA, Striker fired, and DAO guns. I took the time to become proficient with each over many years of training and practice. Carry what you prefer, and are most comfortable with.
     
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  4. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    I agree and disagree with this.

    Matthew is 100% correct when he suggests that you should carry what you prefer and are comfortable (trained) with.

    That said, while you can make well reasoned arguments that one type of action is better than another, carrying different firearms is not a great idea in my opinion. The different manual of arms for each will not be a benefit if you ever really need to use your firearm under stress.

    For example, to CCW a Glock 17 95% of the time but have S&W 3913 on you on the day you need it can cause issues under that kind of stress. The actions are different and one has a manual safety, all things that will slow you down or trip you up. Proficiency with different types aside, do you really want to take the time to remember which gun you're drawing right at the very moment when time matters most?
     
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  5. ?uesto

    ?uesto Loaded Pockets

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    Well that's why I figure becoming familiar and good with a double action pistol would be best, at least initially. In a defensive scenario, I want to be able to pull the trigger and get rounds on target to save my life. I've read plenty and can imagine even more scenarios where a grip or thumb safety were the reason someone wasn't able to fire their weapon when they needed to. I like the idea of having a thumb safety for when the gun is in storage, but I live alone and have practiced proper trigger discipline since I started shooting. If I had a wife or kids in the house, I might want a gun with an external safety, but for now, I want to press the trigger and the gun to go bang. Even if/when I do carry a gun with an external safety, it'll likely be a double action gun and the safety will be off while being carried.

    I also think familiarizing yourself with a striker fired or "safe action" gun is a bad idea if you're also going to carry a weapon with an external safety or that has a very different trigger. The pull of a double action trigger if you're not expecting it can affect your accuracy in a hugely undesirable way when you need to defend yourself. So that being said, if I really got good with the pull of a smooth, crisp, double action gun first, I figure it'd be much easier to move on to another gun if I wanted. And if the transition to a single action gun with an external safety was too much, then I just won't carry them. I can keep those as range or home pistols.
     
  6. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    ?uesto, that was just some dude's opinion. It wasn't even an expert opinion. Considerate just grist for the mill.

    Between my fist post and now, I though of this. Would a race car driver be just as fast and proficient in a car he only raced once a year that was righthand drive? A car where the steering was lighter, the brakes more abrupt, and suspension softer?

    Would a situation like that matter more to a professional or to a hobbyist at a track day?

    I think the the answers to those questions should really inform your philosophy about switching between guns. I think for a recreational shooter, it matters very little if they take a different gun each outing to a square range. For a martial artist/LEO/operator/sheepdog/CCW holder, I think it matters a great deal.

    Plus, logistically speaking, it is probably better for a non collector to concentrate on one platform in one caliber.
     
  7. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    Leave the Sig alone , that's reason the military went to the da\ sa platform . It gives you the option of aimed slow fire . That said , I carry a Seecamp 32 DA only . My house gun is a s&w 60 in 357 . There again sa/ DA . The Sa gives me the option of aimed fired . You have one of the best handgun for multi use made , but its not easily carried with summer wear on .

    Jake
     
  8. ?uesto

    ?uesto Loaded Pockets

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    No, I totally agree. I'm not a collector, but when I'm older and able to afford it, I might. For now, I have one gun, and would like to only have 2-3 guns for defense. I love the Sig platform and their guns and I think I should stick with them. I just think for developing myself as a shooter, a double action only gun might teach better technique and force more accurate shooting. I figure if one can shoot a revolver or other double action gun well, they can shoot DA/SA well too.

    In sticking with Sig, I can have a P226, P228, P229, P224, P225/P6, and P239, all in DAO, DAK, or DA/SA, if I wanted. They are on the same platform and most of them take the same magazines provided it's right height (P226 will work in any of them, P228 and P229 are interchangeable and will work in P224 (P239 and P225/P6 are the only exceptions)). And having all of them in 9mm will be nice. I could alternatively get P220's in a variety of sizes if I wanted all .45 ACP's. They also have their hammer fired DAO P250's and striker fired P320's in a variety of sizes and calibers (I'd like to give Sig some time to perfect their modular polymer pistols before I buy one).


    Do you or anyone else know if you can :censored: the hammer on a Sig to shoot it in single action, but be able to shoot it in double action for subsequent shots? Do you mind if I ask why you carry a DA auto? I really feel like it's a great trigger for personal defense, and they're smooth and enjoyable to shoot at the range.

    Regarding summer carry, I can wear my P229 under nothing a t-shirt at the 11 or 1 o'clock position (depending on holster) or even on my hip if the t-shirt is big enough. Under a short-sleeve button down, it's no problem at all. If I'm at work and climbing, squatting, reaching, lifting/moving, it can get in the way a bit. It's also a bit heavy, but hardly a problem. Figure if I can carry this, I can carry anything. :D
     
  9. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

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    This is asked in a mostly tongue in cheek way, but when would be a good time to not aim in a home defense situation?
     
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  10. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    An example of unaimed fire would be when you shove the gun up again the foe and end the fight !
    Aimed fire is when they refuse to stop coming at you and you are forced to shoot .

    Jake
     
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  11. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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  12. ?uesto

    ?uesto Loaded Pockets

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    Can't believe the forum auto-censored the word I used for "pulling back" the hammer... Hahaha
     
  13. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    Now that makes sense my friend ! I think the sigs are maybe the best for most people .

    Jake
     
  14. sarxsvt

    sarxsvt Loaded Pockets

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    Random thought I had while reading this thread, I had actually considered this last week as well and came up with a plan to correct it.

    I'm addicted to 1911's, but carrying a 1911 always seemed so burdensome to me beyond weight factors and other considerations.
    For the past 8 years or so I've carried Glocks 99%+ (19 to 23, then 26 to 27) of the time. I've dallied with Sigs, M&Ps, XDMs and the rest, but I've always shot the Glocks more accurately for whatever reason.

    However if we look at my time spent shooting each year, I'm sure by quantity and time, its 90% devoted to SA semiautos.

    I've always gone out of my way to make sure that I shoot my carry pistols regularly, but I'm sure everyone knows how much fun shooting hot ammo through a subcompact pistol is.

    I ordered a Glock 34 MOS last week just so I could have a gun with a familiar feel to get more rounds through a similar platform, but honestly, I ordered a ZEV Fulcrum Trigger at the same time, I wonder if I'm shooting myself in the foot proverbially by changing the trigger so radically when my goal was to shoot something with a similar feel to my carry guns.
     
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  15. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    At point-blank range Bill Jordan style in any self-defense scenario when there is not enough time or distance to bring the firearm to eye level to make use of the sights is a very good reason to NOT "aim" in the strictest definition. Two of my BUGs are designed this way as "last ditch" apparati when the primary sidearm "runs dry" or has malfunctioned to a point where the aggressor/perp/bad guy/scumbag is at elbowing/kneeing distance. This distance would be in my personal radius of 35cm.

    I prefer as much real estate between me and an aggressor. I also prefer to make use of the sights on my firearms. In conjunction with one another, I have more control of a circumstance that can potentially be a danger to my safety. That is why I prefer a longer sight radius and a SA trigger.
     
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  16. LivingUpNorth

    LivingUpNorth Loaded Pockets

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    A good friend of mine had a Sig 226 DAK (.40S&W). It had a pretty long trigger pull, but was very smooth and not super heavy. Very pleasant to use. It was also a total tack-driver. In fact, after spending as little as 10 minutes with his Sig, I very nearly sold my XD-45 which I had for a couple of years already. It was that good! Since then, I've become much more familiar with my XD and completely love it, but I will always have a Sig on my wish list, particularly with the DAK trigger. If you get a chance, I heartily recommend trying one out.

    Edit: I just re-read the OP's post and noticed he was not interested in the DAK trigger. Just curious as to why? No judgements, I was just wondering, that's all.
     
  17. ?uesto

    ?uesto Loaded Pockets

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    I'd be interested in trying it, but like I said, I want to get good with a consistent double action trigger first. I don't want to be thinking about reset and subsequent trigger weight. It seems like a great idea and I hear people rave about them. I'll absolutely try one when I get the chance (I need to find a Sig Sauer Owner's Group (Addiction Help Group?) in South Florida hahaha), but for now, I want a trigger that will be the same (and heavy) every pull.

    After getting some good advice at Sig Talk and doing some research, I bought a DAO hammer and am going to install it. Seems pretty easy. I thought it was more involved than that, but now I'll get to know the workings of my gun better and be able to swap it back to DA/SA if I don't like it in double action.
     
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  18. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

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    Well if you bought the MOS with the intention of doing matches or range toy mainly I wouldn't worry to much unless matches are going to dominate the majority of your shooting time and experience. That and if your other glocks have any trigger modifications, like the "-" connector it may be a non-issue.

    That being said, I would recommend ordering some suppressor sights, Glock left standard height sights on the MOS and you will have no co-witness with a RDS. The overall learning experience, if you have never shot a set-up with a RDS on a milled slide, is slower and can lead to chasing the dot more than necessary (among other things) as well as a negative experience of the platform. While it's not for everyone even with an ideal set-up, it's something to consider as it is one of the smallest cost towards such an investment, only to not like it or have buyers remorse that could have tilted the opinion to a positive.
     
  19. les snyder

    les snyder Loaded Pockets

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    FWIW... I was shooting IPSC/USPSA competition before Florida initiated the "shall issue" carry permits, and for several years tried a variety of pistols for the job of carry gun...as a public high school teacher, my carry was then during off duty hours and weekends, so I decided on off body (fanny pack and shoulder pouch)...I finally settled on a G23, and it did not make sense to shoot a 1911 for competition, and carry a Glock, so switched to a G35 for my competition pistol... I did not really like the .40 format, so switched to a 9mm G34 as multi gun matches became my major attention... the bag gun is now a G17... the pocket pistol was a series of mouse guns, with a P3AT and later LCP the options due to the light weight of the polymer lower... but still the long double action trigger coupled with the short sight radius was not the perfect pairing for me...with the addition of the G42, unless I can find a Semmerling LM4, I think my carry search is over...my competition and carry pistols have a very similar sight picture and trigger break.... YMMV regards Les
     
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  20. sarxsvt

    sarxsvt Loaded Pockets

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    I had read this and planned to change it out, but it was third on my list. I wanted to try the Zev trigger first, and KKM barrel was probably second on my list.

    Any sights in particular you like and would recommend? Just Googling it, looks like Meprolight makes a set of tall adjustable sights. How do fiber front sights interact with RDS?

    Most likely I'm going to stick my Leupold Delta Point on it when I get it.