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Open Carry Texas

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jerit, May 30, 2014.

  1. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Mostly, I'm trying to garner information, not arguing a point. The desire to carry is growing stronger lately due to no single thing in particular. And, its not like I'm new to firearms....I've been competing since before I could drive, part of it at a very high level, with too many medals to count and rings far to big to wear.

    I want to know why people make that choice, what experiences they've had that informed it, and what circumstances they forsee it being necessary for.

    I've had several close friends who carry. One shocked me when it came up in conversation by saying "you've never seen me unarmed." I had no idea.

    Later, in a private location, he showed me the derringer that he literally always has on him (often supplemented by a "real gun" on his hip), and I just remember being shocked, not that he carried it or felt the need, but by just how :censored: long it took him to get it out....I just can't see it being a viable self defense weapon, and I don't get the point.

    I've done some defensive pistol training and recently started USPSA at a local club. I'm not "good", because that takes time and training that I haven't put in yet, but I'm not totally green either.

    Its really been 3 things that make me wonder if its actually necessary or advisable, none of which are informed by the anti-carry stance that anyone carrying just wants to be able to throw bullets at a problem.

    First is the reports I've read of (sometimes armed) robberies not far from where I live. It happens, and its not all that rare. But, so far, no one has been hurt. The assailants demand some stuff that is, in my case, insured anyway, get it, and run. I carry a good bit of money on me in the form of electronics, but I don't think any of it is worth ending a life over, not when they all erase themselves anyway, and insurance will buy me new models.

    Second is the self defense training I've taken. If they want some stuff, they'll get it. If they want me or someone I love to go anywhere, the statistics show that one of us won't walk away, and I'm confident that unless they really know what they're doing, my friends, family, and I will. I've done unarmed defenses against handguns and knives, and I know that if the ranges work out, I get small wounds on my hands, and they get a couple gaping holes in their chest. If the ranges don't work out, there are ways to close it. If I use a carry weapon, its down to a race to the trigger when they're already on theirs.

    Third is the pistol training I have done, combined with self-defense drills done with airsoft pistols. I don't see myself trying to be a hero, and I don't see myself drawing a weapon preemptively. If their gun is already out, its a LOT faster to pull a trigger than to draw and fire, even if you've trained to do it as soon as the muzzle flips forward.

    But, there are a LOT of people who have concluded differently, and some of them I REALLY respect. I'm trying to figure out what they've seen that I haven't.

    The reaction against OC, and the talk about fear informing the decision to carry comes from some CCers that I don't respect, and I'll admit it was a bit bating.

    A little while ago, someone on here said something about not wanting to go into Chicago (I think; might have been Detroit) without an AR (or similar). That's a sentiment I've heard before from people who live OTP (outside the perimeter) talking about Atlanta. And I've lived in or visited all those cities, as well as many others. And I just plain don't get it. That is a strange fear I've dealt with before, and it just doesn't make any sense to me.

    I feel like I'm missing something, and I was hoping to just get more information before I apply for my license (so I'll have the option to being my USPSA bag into a restaurant after practice instead of leaving it in my car) and, possibly, get something that's actually appropriate to carry rather than my grandfather's .38 special revolver or my huge 1911 with its impossible to conceal magwell.

    sent from a device without a real keyboard, sorry for things that don't make sense.
     
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  2. UCChris

    UCChris Loaded Pockets

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    Fixed it for ya.

    Sent from Fiji via carrier pigeon
     
  3. neutrontech
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    neutrontech Loaded Pockets

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    I made the choice for no reason other than to make sure I have given myself every option to defend my family. There was no event in my life or that I witnessed that made me decide to so. I carry a lot of other things as well, that I will likely never need, such as a survival kit in my bag. As with my gun, I hope I never need it but want it with me just in case. Again, there was no event in my life that triggered that decision either.

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
     
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  4. scbubba
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    scbubba Loaded Pockets

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    @moostapha Thanks for the reply. CC isn't the only option in my defensive toolkit but it is one that I have and I choose to have it with me. Just because I have a gun with me doesn't mean I'm going to use it in every situation. Like you say, my iphone isn't necessarily worth ending a life over. But complying with someone that is showing a tendency toward using deadly force isn't necessarily guaranteed to end well for you.

    Like @neutrontech says above, I didn't start carrying because of an event in my life or my family's life. It's a choice I make. Like most al of my EDC gear.

    As to something appropriate to CC, there are a ton of options. I carry either a subcompact 9mm (Skyy CPX-2 in my case 10+1 capacity and comes with 2 mags) or compact .45 ACP (Sig P250). The 9mm I can carry in the pockets of shorts, jeans, and pants. The .45 is an IWB clip on holster. I mostly carry the 9mm and a spare (loaded) mag for it. I do know folks that carry a full size 1911 everyday IWB. The key will be finding a pistol you are comfortable with and getting a holster that is as comfortable as possible. I'm not sure there is such thing as a truly comfortable holster, but YMMV.

    I laughed at the comment about not going into Chicago/Detroit without an AR. I'm from a small southern rural town and know a lot of people who make comments like that as a joke (mostly). I've also lived/worked/traveled in big cities (ATL, MIA, DC, NYC mostly) and hear comments from them about being afraid to go to small southern towns. Because of rednecks and banjos and such... :)

    In general, and on topic, the OCT folks have the right to OC those long guns in their town/state. I honestly wish OC was not restricted in my state like it is. Not because I want to OC a pistol or a rifle, but because the 2A says "shall not be infringed" and because any right that you must get permission for is not really a right. Do I think a lot of the OCT folks are doing more harm than good? Yes but mainly because of the ones that are acting like less than intelligently (think posing in Chipotle with an AR loaded and help at low ready).

    Anyway, thanks for the conversation. If I can help with info, etc about CC choices or anything else. please give me a holler.

    - Bubba
     
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  5. Torpedo Vegas

    Torpedo Vegas Loaded Pockets

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    That does not surprise me. The way the story was released on the NRA Lobbying website and not any of their main sites with no name attached gave them a way out. They were able to get something out there to test the waters and then backtrack if things went bad. Notice though that they did not immediately retract the statement when the story broke and instead waited to see what the backlash would be

    The group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America is now calling on Target to ban guns in stores. The group is showing pictures of Open Carry Texas members in a DFW Target store in March. In one of the pictures two guys with assault rifles are posing for a picture in front of baby toys. In another picture a group of 5, possibly 6 people are walking down a main aisle of the store. IMO this could be a bigger set back then the restaurants. If Target decides to ban guns it could be the first domino in a series of retail chains to fall that do not want to be involved in the controversy and decide to act before they are forced to. Retail chains such as Target have a much larger customer base then any single restaurant chain and have much more to lose from bad publicity.

    Edit: Looks like Target has been the...... sight of :) open carry demonstrations in Texas, Alabama, Ohio, North Carolina, Washington, Wisconsin, and Virginia. Looks like bad press from a group that represents Mothers and Children is not good for Target. Target says that 80%-90% of its customers are female and 38% of guest have children. They also say that those percentages are higher then other retail stores. Again if Target caves to public pressure their action will put pressure on other major retailers
     
  6. UCChris

    UCChris Loaded Pockets

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    I carry due to recent events in my neighborhood.

    Sent from Fiji via carrier pigeon
     
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  7. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    That's definitely the way I feel, to an extent. But, its limited to suburbs. Out in the woods or actually on a farm, I feel fine....suburbs....that's where people throw batteries and fast food waste at cyclists (like me) and try to make me feel less American or less Christian for not hating gay people and Mexicans. And have just as many problems with drug trafficking. And, yes, rednecks with banjos. All the problems of both, but you can't grow your own food OR get Chinese delivery at 4am.

    And, yes, my problem with OCT is the same as yours...low ready, safety off, mag visible. :censored: were they thinking?! I've DONE empty holster protests before, and while neither one worked, at least ours didn't get the NRA bitching us out.

    sent from a device without a real keyboard...sorry if something doesn't make sense.
     
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  8. jerit

    jerit Loaded Pockets

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    OCT held another demonstration yesterday, in front of the Fort Worth Convention Center where the Texas Republican Convention is being held. There were two other groups there vying for the politicians attention. One was a large group of Gay-marriage rights for Texas supporters, and who were also there to protest a meeting of a group supporting traditional marriage. That's a lot of signs, flags, and flyers, and yes, a few guns. One thing for sure, it was easy to tell which group was which...
    I think ???
     
  9. kd7dvd
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    kd7dvd EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Anyone have a source of rainbow grips for a glock 19? :bounce:
     
  10. JonSidneyB
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    A lot of things have changed since I have been alive but I also have to admit that some of what I see is also regional.

    As a teenager in the early 70's on a couple of occasions I slung a Weatherby XXII across my back, got on my bicycle (not old enough to drive yet) and went to meet people to get some rabbits. I would also walk down the road a few miles to the creek with a rifle to hunt small game...and it was a paved road. This was in Indiana by the way. No one every noticed.

    In the early 80's I rode my motorcycle to Tulsa (100 miles away) to pick up a Remington 870. I came back with it across my back on a turnpike, no one noticed.

    In the 70's and 80's I would on occasion come into town with a 6" S&W 19 on my belt and no one paid any attention, I didn't think twice about going into a store or grab a bite to eat while armed. It was a different time and it was never for self defense. We didn't think much about self defense in the time and place I was at. I remember in the county I was in it made the paper that we had the first murder in the county in 75 years. Funny thing was the state was only 75 years old at the time and the last murder in the county was when the state opened.

    There was never a thought about "I am going to go into town to open carry" It was just that we felt it was not worth the effort for us to put our revolvers away. We didn't do it often but we did once in awhile. If we were going to town at the start of the day there would not have been a handgun. It was always we were in the middle of something and realized we needed something in town.

    Some would say today that was irresponsible carrying a rifle in public like that but it was not big deal back then. Heck if you went into the high school parking lot you would see a gun in the window of almost every single pickup truck. I posted this fact a few years ago out here and some people said that that was reckless but it was a common practice for the rural kids and no problems ever happened. I don't think we had what you would call gun fanatics (I know I know and I don't mean it that way) because they were so common that there really were not a big deal. It would have been if you said, "hey look at my new gun" you might get a response of, "hey look at my new socks". We did realize some were better than others.

    I liked my guns and miss them but back then they kind of got taken for granted. I don't recall anyone trying to draw attention to themselves for having one. I think the difference was people were used to seeing them and once in awhile you would see one being carried in town. A lot has changed since then. I do think if someone came into town in camo carrying an M1 Garand (This was the Vietnam Era but I don't think AR-15's were that popular yet in the civy world) with a T-shirt that said "Eat lead sucker" I think that would have got noticed. Then again if I went into town prepped to go mountain climbing some people would notice as well.

    Back to the point. I think if you want people who are not used to seeing guns everyday to be accepting of it baby steps are needed rather than a big rally at some businesses parking lot. It is my opinion that if you do want to open carry in public (I have not seem one of these events so I might be assuming too much) I would try and look like everyone else around with the exception of the gun, perhaps even being dressed a bit better than average would work. Sometimes the slogans can be a bit much for some people.

    You can win people to your side that don't have an interest but I don't think standing out or making a scene is the answer. It's my opinion that it will take baby steps.

    Since I saw a reference to rednecks and banjo's in this thread I have to make a little comment. :) Us country boys are not always nice, I remember we used to make fun of townies...that was unfair and not right for us to do that. One day I hope townies will quit making fun of rednecks, we all don't fit the stereotype :p

    Please excuse the vast number of typo's.
     
    Last edited by JonSidneyB, Jun 6, 2014
  11. JonSidneyB
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    Going out on a limb, the reference to the rainbow grips has me all confused. :) I am probably being stupid but...... who has rainbow grips?
     
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  12. kd7dvd
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    kd7dvd EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    No idea. But the gay community has adopted the rainbow as a symbol. So, a rainbow-gripped Glock would be a gay-friendly weapon. I guess... :D
     
  13. JonSidneyB
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    Oh, I didn't realize this.
     
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  14. scbubba
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    scbubba Loaded Pockets

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    @JonSidneyB That was me that made the reference to the redneck stereotypes. That's because, as a southern country boy, ive head them all too. I don't believe them because I know a ton that don't fit them. Like me.... :)

    Anyway, great stuff about it being regional... High school in the mid 80s in small town SC also had rifles/shotguns in the truck or car. The early part of deer Seaon in the fall had several of us coming to school straight from the tree stands. In camo and if we got something, sometimes with more than that (and usually late...).
     
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  15. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    Oh, OK....

    I am a western country boy (well, kind of, I bounced back on forth between Oklahoma and Indiana a lot). I didn't realize the gun in every truck window extended to the states that touched the Atlantic. We did hunt but it was not hunting in the traditional sense. Most of our guns were for best control, not to product cattle but chickens. Hunting was closer to being like harvesting since we all already knew where the deer were.
     
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  16. JonSidneyB
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    A little open carry trivia for people.

    Up until 1960 high school students in New York City carried their rifles to school on the subway for practice and matches.
     
    Last edited by JonSidneyB, Jun 6, 2014
  17. CSM-101
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    A couple of years ago I read an article in a magazine about 50 or so years ago where a school had a rat problem and they had a contest
    between "trappers" and "hunters" as to who could kill the most rats, and yes, the students brought their own guns to school.
     
  18. JonSidneyB
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    It scares me to death realizing that 50 years ago was in the 60's. I remember the 60's :(

    Here is a 60's memory. I remember tarantulas would fall into the urinals that reached all the way to the floor and couldn't get out. The porcelain was too slick for them to get traction.

    We didn't have school shootings back then either.
     
    Last edited by JonSidneyB, Jun 6, 2014
  19. vegassprky
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    vegassprky Loaded Circuits

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    You had urinals? We had a outhouse at home and at school, memories from the 50-60s era.
     
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  20. JonSidneyB
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    It was a modern rural school. :) I don't see urinals that go down below floor level anymore, what happened to those. The outhouse was at home.
     
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