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ONE THING EVERY EDC'er SHOULD HAVE

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by Nate320, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. Tex8746

    Tex8746 Loaded Pockets

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    OH no the Controversial QuickClot/Celox again.

    First my credentials: Civi-side EMT-B; Military Combat Medic (with 2 deployments)

    Ok my take on QC its use is very dependent on situation/location of wound/complications of wound/location of Pt vs. Location of proper medical treatment/Time.

    Some on the EDCF are prepared for an apocalypse/zombie take over/Armageddon scenario in which case follow the said directions on the package and manage to the best of your ability, also quite possibly in a remote area say hiking/camping/hunting but QC is kinda like bondo for humans. If you have worked on cars you understand the reference, its a quick patch job but it takes a lot of work to reverse the patch and correctly fix.

    IMHO everyone carrying around QC without Medical knowledge/training is similar to giving a monkey a gun, it may work but then again things could go from horrible to F*****d.

    For the money it sounds like yall are ready to through at this stuff you might just want to take a few classes and pick some brains at a MTF (medical treatment facility) because not only are there specific scenarios this could be used but some other "tricks" that can be used as well to sustain until properly trained, and not to mention insured, folk can arrive and correct the situation.

    My advice to anyone still wanting to obtain this stuff, and I am by no means condoning or condemning it, please first read the instructions and then seek further knowledge on how to stop bleeding. Claren has said it before and I will add to it "good Samaritan laws stop at poking holes in people" also putting any foreign objects in holes.





    BE CAREFUL WITH THIS STUFF!!!
     
  2. mikel81

    mikel81 Loaded Pockets

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    :iagree: I have decided that applying pressure is probably a better idea for normal every day first aid situations. This stuff might save lives in combat, but those are extreme circumstances. One thing I think every person in the world should do - TAKE A CPR CLASS.
     
  3. ccpmedic

    ccpmedic Loaded Pockets

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    I echo the need for training and the use of Quick Clot/Celox. Direct Pressue (not bulky dressings), Elevation, and Pressure Points will effectively slow bleeding until Professional Fire/EMS can arrive to render. If you are in a wilderness situation and need medical assistance then a Wilderness EMT class would have been helpful prior to going into the wilderness. The military is having great success in the use of Hemostatic Agents in the battlefield scenario. These brave men and women are trained in the use of these agents prior to being issued the agents for use in the field.
    To me, being prepared means just that. If you are going to be prepared for medical emergencies then take a basic First Aid class, or a basic EMT class. These classes are offered through most local Community College systems.
    Thanks for listening, and I am glad to hear so many people who are concerned about helping others when the need arises. O0
    Roy
     
  4. Exmasonite

    Exmasonite Loaded Pockets

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    Been thinking about getting some of this stuff but had a question:

    What's the average expiration on QC/Celox? Is it at least 12 months? Don't want to be updating my kit every 6 months or something.
     
  5. kitkat

    kitkat Loaded Pockets

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  6. stormtracker

    stormtracker Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah if you tool around the more high speed sites you will read from many combat medics that Quickclot does more damage than good. Celox as the other posted stated is much more in favor.
     
  7. Stutoffee

    Stutoffee Loaded Pockets

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    Having read the comments from experienced & knowledgable EDCases on here, Ive decided NOT to put this in my kit.
    I have had Frst Aider training for work but Im really just a "talented enthusiastic amateur" (or monkey with a gun! - nice analogy! ;D) so I'll pack extra bandages & dressings & rely on applied pressure.
     
  8. Bubba

    Bubba Loaded Pockets

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    I just looked at a package of celox I bought last year 2007 ( I am pretty sure it was new then) and it expires 7-2009

    So it looks like it has a 2 yr 'life'
    I have no idea if it really expires then, or is just less useful though
     
  9. Versatek

    Versatek Loaded Pockets

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    Hemostasis, LLC is a local company that is marketing some of its products to the "civilian" market. They have a specialty nosebleed kit for those prone to this affliction (my mother would have liked this), and a bellows applicator for pinpoint applications.

    i talked with a rep of theirs at a gun show this past weekend. He has a friend working in HVAC insallation, and he is always getting sliced on something sharp. He keeps the bellows applicator on hand, and says it is very effective in his situation.

    I am unaffiliated with the firm. I have seen the product, talked to the rep, and watched the live trial video. It appears to work as advertised. I have purchased the product and keep some with my Ventilated Operator Kit, and in my home kit.
     
  10. outdoorsman1911

    outdoorsman1911 Loaded Pockets

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    that right there sums it up to anyone that is considering this. and should be very clear of the use intended for this product.
     
  11. outdoorsman1911

    outdoorsman1911 Loaded Pockets

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    did a little bit of checking when a few guys I know came back from the sandbox(private sector).

    Quik clot is now a banned item among their units, numerous reports of burned tissue and at about a 50% success rate. Also more discomfort in short term and long term.

    Celox is now the standard, less burn rates, although still happens on occassion. Higher Success rate.

    Both Products are generally surgically removed either way as it affects the tissue healing when it stays in.

    Hope that helps some of you out atleast.
     
  12. madkins007

    madkins007 Loaded Pockets

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    If I was packing a Major Trauma/First Responder kit, I would include Celox. (I keep playing with making such a kit- but I also keep figuring that I am 50 and have never needed it yet, so do I really want to tie up that much $$ for something I will probably never use?)

    For home, EDC, and most of my other kits (I must have a dozen first aid kits scattered around), I will rely on other blood-stopping techniques. Proper bandaging will take care of about 99.9% of the wounds we run into- unless we are around a lot of guns, heavy machinery, big time sharp edges, etc.- then we are back to kits tailored for the job.

    (EMT, First Aid instructor, wilderness first-aid enthusiast)
     
  13. GearUp

    GearUp Banned

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    Well, I am a Celox "salesman" of sorts... we sell it at Rescue Essentials. And I have to tell y'all, I get regular calls from guys in the field who have been issued QuickClot. It's heartbreaking... if you ever have to use the original QC on a patient, hope they're unconscious. I think the newer QC formulation is less exothermic but there's still a lot of the original in use. I've seen the stuff melt a plastic cup when water is added. OTOH I've actually eaten some Celox, to no ill effect. I prefer it because it's not a procoagulant - no chance that it will travel through the system and start something you don't want to happen.

    The latest approved by the military is WoundStat, which I've not had a chance to "play" with... looking forward to that. Sort of. :(
     
  14. Ian McDevitt

    Ian McDevitt Loaded Pockets

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    Well, I am a Hemostatic "user" of sorts not tainted by selling it and free to be objective and fair analyzing the available info. I'd say get the WoundStat. It's worked in 100% of the cases. Call the company that sells it.
     
  15. Ian McDevitt

    Ian McDevitt Loaded Pockets

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    BTW, the two agents now advised by all the services are QC Combat Gauze and WoundStat.
     
  16. Ian McDevitt

    Ian McDevitt Loaded Pockets

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    What's up. All the hemostatics in that form are used the same. The properties may be diffrent, ie: non-zeolite or mineral based and mineral based, but in that form, are applied the same. The WoundStat is the hemostatic of choice now with the QC Combat Gauze. I can tell you that some other companies are coming out with some interesting products combining bandage material and some of the hemostatics which will make the actual carrying and application easier.......actually, I'd get the book thru One Source Tactical, I like them better than that other place. You should see my new stuff, I gave some of it to some french nationals and they just sent me this big formal thank you diploma thing, hell, I can't even read it! ;D
     
  17. dovk0802

    dovk0802 Loaded Pockets

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  18. Arkansas_Ranger

    Arkansas_Ranger Empty Pockets

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    Applying a clotting agent to yourself or a close family matter is one thing, but think again before applying it to an unknown victim or even a personal friend. This type of item and its potential complications could, with a good civil lawyer, get you into some trouble as it could be argued as going beyond the scope of a good samaritan thus making you liable. I know the intent is to help, but people take advantage of whatever they can. Don't become a victim of a victim. Unless I lived in a remote area I wouldn't consider buying any clotting agents.

    I'm a former paramedic (recently downgraded to basic EMT after giving up EMS), and I really don't advocate the use of EMS in my area or most of the state for that matter. In my opinion, (and this is assuming you have a true emergency for which EMS was created) you could get to a hospital faster and get treatment faster than waiting for an ambulance to come to you. If however, you live in a large metropolitan area with multiple EMS stations then you may be more fortunate. Also, it goes without saying if you're entrapped in a wrecked vehicle, collapsed building, or without other means of conveyance then obviously you'd need an ambulance. I know when I was working I made runs out 45 minutes and then back over that same length of time running code 3. By the time we got the call and got to the patient they could've been at or very near the hospital or ideally in distant situations been able to intercept them somewhere on the highway. In this situation clotting agents would be handy for the victim to have around. Personally, unless I (or family members) need spinal immobilization I'm throwing them in the vehicle and taking them myself. Obviously, if I was in the midst of chest compressions I wouldn't be able to drive so some logic must be applied here. You won't have to wait around in the waiting area if you're obviously having a heart attack, have stroke symptoms, in anaphylactic shock, bones stuck out your skin, or severe bleeding especially if you can call ahead. The 911 operator should be able to transfer your call to the hospital emergency department or at least provide you with the number in a legitimate emergency. I dispatched for 11 months before becoming a patrol cop, and I recall doing that several times. Now in my current line of work which is also my life's niche, I call ambulances for people quite often as our visitors don't often know where hospitals are at, and I don't transport. I have merely first responder trauma equipment with oxygen and an AED in my ranger vehicle.

    So my philosophy is debatable, but in my experience why wait for initial medical assistance to come to you when you could reach definitive medical care in a more prompt fashion? Ok, how did I get off on this tangent even while watching King of the Hill?! :shrug:
     
  19. jon1996

    jon1996 Loaded Pockets

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    this is my take on it, I have had EMT training for the Oilfield the industy I work in, I can Pack a wound with kerlix and take care of some major bleeding, Yes it is more painful but IMHO safer than using quickclot, I have heard of alot of damage using this clotting agent, lots of the granules getting beyond the cut and into the bloodstream, now Celox-A is different I have never seen it nor used it, I have a video on showing how effective it is,

    WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART , LIVE ASLEEP PIG, AND LOTS OF BLOOD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yvvgJ8Aj-4
     
  20. Stelth

    Stelth Banned

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    This product doesn't seem to be something non-medics should be carrying around. I thinks it's the perfect example of a little knowledge being dangerous.