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Ohio Man Brings Gun To Theater - Maxpedition Bag

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by LausDeo, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Tulliandar

    Tulliandar Loaded Pockets

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    Not for private businesses. Carrying a weapon into a privately owned business with a "no guns" sign in CO is trespassing.
     
  2. DBR

    DBR Loaded Pockets

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    A long time ago some people had the opinion that slavery, which was allowed as the law of the land, was wrong. A lot of other people thought it was right simply because the law allowed them to do it. What I am arguing, and you don't seem to understand because you simply don't want to, is that I wish for people to realize that carrying a weapon for self-defense is a basic civil right that should not be trumped because someone owns a gas station or even a corporation like Wal-Mart, etc. You are the one that is talking about courts disagreeing with me and you're beating that drum - I don't care. I'm not saying that the 9th Circuit Court of Fantasy or any other Alice in Wonderland story agrees with me, you keep setting up a Strawman so you can knock it down. Your assertion that all courts in all fifty states disagree with me is ludicrous. That would mean that all of them have heard this and considered this argument. The last I checked, not one of them has, but you keep on saying they have. ;)
     
  3. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    Moderative Warning

    DBR and nbmaine2007,

    Please cool it before this thread has to be locked. This issue can be discussed calmly, but your back and forth is getting personal and emotionally charged.

    Also, DBR, this has nothing to do with slavery, so let's not go that route.
     
  4. David L. Holt

    David L. Holt Loaded Pockets

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    Are you sure? My understanding is that you're not trespassing until you're asked to leave. I'm trying to find the legality of it, if you happen to know of precedent/law elsewhere I'd appreciate seeing it. Since I'm in the process of getting a CCW and permit, I'm trying to be VERY sure of my rights.

    Edit: Apparently it IS a crime... which disturbs me immensely... I still want to see the statute.
     
    Last edited by David L. Holt, Aug 9, 2012
  5. David L. Holt

    David L. Holt Loaded Pockets

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    To be fair, he was using it as an illustration of something that the Courts upheld as legal that we all agree was always a violation of rights.
     
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  6. elkhills

    elkhills Loaded Pockets

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    So this man never brandished a weapon, never threatened anyone? What I read is that he was profiles for:
    1. How he looked, ie carrying a certain type of bag
    2. Where he sat, ie a position "tactical advantage"

    This is just wrong on so many levels. And the off duty officer should be commended?! Not in my opinion.

    ps- What's wrong with being called a Survivalist?

    pps- Do you think this would have been handled/reported differently if the person had been a race other than White?
     
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  7. vegassprky
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    vegassprky Loaded Circuits

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    Would rather be a " Survivalist" than a "Non-Survivalist" or in other words a victim.
     
  8. smellypaddler

    smellypaddler Loaded Pockets

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    This notion that you don't have to go to a business that doesn't allow firearms seems a bit strange to me. If it is one of you rights and you allow this mentality to take over, what happens when every business doesn't allow it? Then you will only end up CCW on your days off work (because your employers business won't let you) and only when you aren't actually going anywhere. How will you buy groceries, gas, clothes or live a socially enjoyable life?

    Not coming from the USA I think you need to stand up and protect what rights you have before they wither away and you end up in a country like mine where I have to jump through hoops to get longarms and I can't own a handgun for protection. I used to carry a knife but police now have random stop and search powers with an instant $1000 fine for any weapon found.
     
  9. TX expat

    TX expat Loaded Pockets

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    I'm sure it's a bit of a strange concept coming from a different country, but one thing you need to consider is that in America property rights trump individual rights and while it's easy to feel the way you do about the "right to carry", our rights would be more at risk if the government took away the right to decide what happens on our private property.
     
  10. Mr BadWrench

    Mr BadWrench Loaded Pockets

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    So, by the argument I am reading here If I own a store I can put a sign up saying that you are not allowed to wear the color green on my property and anyone who does i can have removed from my property by the police?

    http://www.mydoorsign.com/Door-Signs/No-Guns-Knives-Weapons-Allowed.aspx This is the attitude of the people we are dealing with.
    "• Advertise a serious No Guns policy on your premises. Don’t let the threat of gun incidents or violence overrun the security of your property." I see no guns allowed signs everywhere I look now.

    This guy screwed up, he should not have been in the theater and he should have been aware of the laws. The prosecution now holds this mans Future in their hands. He will probably be lucky if he will ever be allowed to own a gun again and its a crying shame.
     
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  11. TX expat

    TX expat Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah, pretty much correct. Would you prefer the government telling you that you didn't have that right on your personal property?
     
  12. jag-engr
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    Actually, you do have that right. I don't know how inclined the police would be to enforce your rule, but you can prohibit pretty much anything you want on your property, as long as it doesn't discriminate based on certain criteria, such as race, religion, disability, etc.

    When it comes to private property rules for businesses, there's a balance of property rights and personal rights. For instance, I can prohibit people from bringing pets into my business, but I can't prohibit a blind person from bring a seeing eye dog.
     
  13. Tulliandar

    Tulliandar Loaded Pockets

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    See my post in the other thread on this topic. Unfortunately just reading the laws isn't enough. There are also court rulings one must know about. Your best bet is to either speak to the correct type of lawyers, or take a class dedicated to CO CCW laws, and *then* speak to the correct type of lawyers.
     
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  14. lordhamster

    lordhamster Loaded Pockets

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    Nothing strange about it. Firearms rights are an extension of personal sovereignty and property rights. As an individual, you have a right to defend yourself and your property. As a propery owner, you have a right to define the set of rules for your property.

    If I don't agree with a policy I don't have to go there. However, I don't just do a silent boycot... I like to write letters to owners with attached receipts from non-posting competitors.
     
  15. D50boy

    D50boy Loaded Pockets

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    Going back to the guy and his bag. The guy was being suspicious in the opinion of the manager and the security guard. I don't know if I would say he was profiled, but I'm ok with the guard checking it out. They guy was carrying without a permit so he was doing something illegal and I'm glad he was busted for it. Would anything have happened? Who knows.
     
  16. David L. Holt

    David L. Holt Loaded Pockets

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    Brings up an interesting thought. What if I legitimately (and truthfully) claim that the right to protect myself from all threats is a core tenet of my beliefs...?

    Edit: Tenet... wow I can't believe I missed that one.
     
    Last edited by David L. Holt, Aug 10, 2012
  17. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    Then a jury of your peers will get to decide if society is willing to give you that right under all circumstances.

    The gentlemen in Ohio (1) knowingly carried a weapon without a permit, (2) took the weapon somewhere that it was not allowed, and (3) was boneheaded enough to show it to someone when they asked. Regardless of whether the man knew the movie theater's policy, regardless of whether that policy is fair, and regardless of whether that policy is constitutional, he still broke the law by carrying illegally in the first place. His arrest was the result of a series of bad decisions.
     
  18. David L. Holt

    David L. Holt Loaded Pockets

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    True. But I think the main complaint some of us have is that they searched his home and seized computers and such based on a concealed carry violation. That's like getting a traffic ticket, having a joint, so they decide to send the DEA to your house. It was a complete overreaction imo. I also take offense to the fact that they list his knives, bandaids, and iodine tablets as suspicious and indicative of him being a nutjob.
     
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  19. David L. Holt

    David L. Holt Loaded Pockets

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    Also, this: "Our contention is that he's drug dependent," he said. "And as a result, he should not be possessing a firearm."
    That blatantly shows that the Police Lt. just wants to find an excuse to limit handguns. They still won't say WHAT drug he's on supposedly.
     
  20. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    The importance of maintaining a low profile. I can walk through the streets of Manhattan with my O.D. green military-style messenger bag, and no one would look twice at me. Then again, such bags are common as dirt here, among 30-something adults who like to call themselves hipsters and pretend that drinking over-priced coffee and hanging out in a cafe for hours with their laptops makes them cool.

    If something isn't common, you're going to stand out. Reminds me of one Cold War story in which counter-intelligence was checking out the apartment of a suspected spy. The lead investigator noticed that the apartment was sparsely furnished. He opened the refrigerator door and noticed there was barely anything in there. Opened up the cabinets, noticed there was barely any cans or jars in there. Then he noticed a big bowl of heaping walnuts on the counter. It just looked out of place. It stood out. So, he walked over to it. Took a closer look. Found a hollowed-out walnut with a piece of micro film in it. That bowl just stood out.