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Non-weapon Weapons

Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by Simplicity05, May 25, 2013.

  1. jackknife

    jackknife Loaded Pockets

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    Short answer is no. Proficiency in an after the action report will be very subjective. Viewpoints vary wildly, and the police know this. They don't want anythng but the facts.

    Several years ago, my wife and I were walking in a local park with our welsh corgi on the leash. An off the leash pit bull charged and attacked our corgi. I had in my hand a heavy hormbeam hiking stick. The pit bull got by me and grabbed our dog and I came down on the pit's head with evrything I had. It killed the pit bull. The owner, a shaved head tattooed young man came cahrging me, cursing and yelliing he was going to kill my graybeared old :censored:, and making no mistake in his intentions. I used the same stick, and when it was over, mr. tatoo had a broken left arm, and a broken left rib, and some other injuries. The police charged him with having a vicious dg off leash in public, and arrested him att he local ER. He started a lawsuit against me for the killing of his pit bull, and attacking him. It came to court, and the fast eddie type of lawyer he had pleaded that I was the one out looking for trouble as I was carrying a club.

    The judge took about 20 seconds to review the case, looked at the police report, and then tossed the whole thing out of his court with a warning for the whiplash willy lawyer not to ever clog up his court agains with garbage. The judge made a statement that I will never forget. He said my stick was not a prepared weapon.

    That made the difference. It was a normal object for the circumstance, walking around. It wasn't some zoowie mall ninja slug shot weapon that every police officer knows about. The judges have seen many of them, and they know the difference. The proficiency of my using the stick never came into question. It was just a blunt force instrument that just happened to be in my hand when I was out walking. Now if I had a padlock and a rope, or some other items that had no place at that time in my possession, it could have been different. Or a sturdy bicycle lock and no bicycle around.

    No matter what you use, it has to appear to be a normal object that anyone would have in their possession at that time. It can't appear to be a "prepared weapon" as the judge put it. Because my stick was so innocent in appearance, I walked out of court scott free, and the idiot with the dead off leash pit bull had to pay our emergency vet bill for having our corgi's shoulder stitched up.

    a stick is just a stick, no matter what. But two items out of place, put together in a manor making a slung shot weapon is something else. With a low profile stick, your training won't come into it. Just say you were so scared, you don't really remember swinging it. Or using the ends to thrust. Non issue.
     
    jcombs, baccar-3, ac7ss and 5 others like this.
  2. adnj

    adnj Loaded Pockets

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    Whatever is heavy, sharp and/or keeps them at a distance. I know of a mason that injured a mugger with a brick trowel. I know a woman who fought off a purse snatcher by hitting him in the head with the purse and them breaking his arm. She walked him into the police station, too.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  3. Holliday

    Holliday Loaded Pockets

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    Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I get PMs/DMs/emails constantly about wasp spray for self-defense and this thread is almost always referenced - due to the global reach of EDCF.

    Although this myth has been debunked over and over again, it wasn't until the last year or so that we actually had video proof to show that it is simply doesn't work on humans. (Not to mention the whole violation of federal crime thing.)

    Hopefully, these clips will help put this myth to bed once and for all.




     
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  4. adnj

    adnj Loaded Pockets

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    Supersoaker and ammonia ftw!

    Wasp spray is usually just a pyrethin mixture. Pyrethrins are about the safest insecticides that I am aware of. Headache is a common inhalation side effect. You can soak your clothes in it, let it dry and have a solid mosquito/flying insect repelling garment.

    Sent using Tapatalk
     
  5. VT-aroo

    VT-aroo Loaded Pockets

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    Per Clint Smith (youtube) a small fire extinguisher is always ok. "Shoot them with the white stuff and hit them with the can." Might not be great for multiple attackers.
     
  6. thebruce

    thebruce Loaded Pockets

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    Your best weapon is awareness.
     
  7. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    I hear this about 2-3 times a weeks from various individuals. The problem is what to DO once you become aware of the attack. Do you just let yourself become a victim? WHAT does one actually DO?
     
  8. Bander124

    Bander124 Loaded Pockets

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    I know a sheet rocker who laid out a mugger with his hard hat

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
     
  9. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    a) Have you asked your employer about this concern? If so, what do they say? What is their policy on worker safety? Do they even HAVE a policy for a circumstance where you are in eminent danger? Do you have an attorney on retainer for such circumstance where you may find that you need to defend yourself and the result is that your are in custody by law enforcement? Does your employer PROVIDE anything for you to use to defend yourself? Have you considered that "common" item such as that tire iron a vehicle?

    b) What are your thoughts based on? Experience? Scenarios depicted in popular literature? When you state, "in that environment," are you alluding to an action to defend your yourself while you are IN that environment; or when you find the would-be attacker in THAT environment? WHAT environment is that?
     
  10. coloradogps

    coloradogps Loaded Pockets

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    Wasp spray...
     
  11. Holliday

    Holliday Loaded Pockets

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    Only the clueless carry wasp spray for self-defense.
     
  12. indigo_wolf

    indigo_wolf AKA Breezy

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    I thought wasp spray for self defense was quite literally a federal crime ("It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling.).

    Translation: Party in the making for a trial lawyer.

    ATB,
    Sam
     
  13. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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  14. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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    Sounds like the statement was added because of a trial lawyer.
     
  15. Holliday

    Holliday Loaded Pockets

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    Nice to see you again, Sam...You are 100% correct. Aside from the fact that it simply does not work on humans, it is technically against federal law to use it in that manner. It has an EPA registration, which is why it carries the federal law warning.

    ETA - At the top of this page (about 6 posts up) I linked 2 videos that debunk the "wasp spray for self-defense" myth.
     
    Last edited by Holliday, Jan 30, 2017
    #115 Holliday, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  16. sixracer

    sixracer Loaded Pockets

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    Some interesting points here. It just has me thinking about duty to retreat and escalation of Violence laws here in Massachusetts. It’s very easy to become a defendant in the criminal case if you break someone’s arm trying to protect your laptop.


    USE OF NON-DEADLY FORCE
    To prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense, the Commonwealth must prove one of the following things beyond a reasonable doubt:
    First, that the defendant did not reasonably believe he (she) was being attacked or immediately about to be attacked, and that his (her) safety was in immediate danger; or
    Second, that the defendant did not do everything reasonable in the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to force; or
    Third, that the defendant used more force to defend himself (herself) than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

    In other words: don’t bring a gun to a knife fight.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    A knife is considered a deadly weapon. If you have a reasonable basis to believe that your attacker is about to use that knife to cause your death or serious bodily harm, then typically, use of deadly force is defensible. I do not know the laws specific to Mass, but what I have described is generally true. Indeed, there is much case law in support of using deadly force (including guns) where the defender is facing multiple unarmed assailants, where the attacker is younger or more fit than the defender. Unless you are a lawyer (and even if you are), I recommend that anyone who owns a gun for self defense read "The Law of Self Defense" by Andrew Branca. Branca is an attorney who specializes in defending those who have been charged for using deadly force to defend themselves
     
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