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Discussion in 'Handguns' started by grayman, Nov 20, 2011.
If it's that important to you, drive your own car.
1) Take your own car.
2) Rent one from a 3rd Party.
grayman, what part of St. Louis will you be traveling in? I live in Central MO and I visit STL a lot for work and family visits. Depending on the area of STL, you can probably be safe without. STL may be ranked #3 in the nation for crime and gang violence, but let me tell you it's all about areas. Anything in East St. Louis is bad territory, but that's St. Louis, IL not MO. Most of the MO gang crime takes place on Martin Luther King Jr Blvd. If you're out in one of the surrounding communities that has been annexed into St. Louis, then you will probably be fine. As always, every place has petty theft and car break ins, but the crime/violence ranking is so high due to several concentrated areas.
As far as carrying in company vehicles goes, I would secure my firearm in a transport box similar to the Secure-It Gun Safes. Then you have your gun when you arrive and stop places, but it's secure in the trunk while traveling.
I'm not a lawyer but I've seen one on TV.
The way I see it, self defense with a firearm is now a civil right (in the US, thanks to two recent Supreme Court rulings) as well as an inherent right predating any government. Does your company require you to sign a form saying you agree to their policy to take no action if you are sexually harassed, physically abused, required to perform work in an unsafe manner, or to vote for a certain party? If they did, would you sign it? If you signed it, would it hold up anywhere?
Have you signed anything agreeing to their unconstitutional no weapons policy or have they just issued it and informed you? My company has a blanket no weapons policy that includes company vehicles. I don't lose sleep over it. Concealed means that nobody but you sees it or is in any way aware of it until it is needed to save a life.
Your company is like many in that they are more afraid of getting sued by miscreants than by the survivors of deceased employees.
Take your own car. The company vehicles are obviously unsafe to drive anyway. Besides, you might decide on a little side trip to "visit cousin Bobby in Memphis". You should be able to deduct the mileage if that means anything for you.
It can't be all that far if you're driving rather than flying. Can they really require you to take a company car to get there? Is it simply required if you want to be reimbursed for the milage?
If so, I'd just drive my own vehicle.
There are places in every state where you're less likely to be the victim of a violent crime compared to other places. But there's no such thing as being completely safe. My insurance adjuster found that out the hard way. He works in my neighborhood. Very safe neighborhood. He's a Vietnam vet who did very well for himself when he got back. He lives in a rich neighborhood, owns a Rolls-Royce, a "nice" watch. When he comes here, he's smart enough not to display his wealth. Doesn't even drive his RR into the neighborhood. Vietnam vet, made it through the war with no serious injuries . . . Years later as a civilian, a punk kid cut his throat while trying to rob him. Happened in my safe neighborhood, in his secure workplace, while he was sitting at his desk.
He survived. Still works here. Put in a better security system, and keeps a pistol-grip pump action shotgun leaning on the inside of his desk. Problem is that violent criminals have feet, cars, and access to public transportation.
just keep your head up and dont look like a mark. st louis is rough but so is any bigger city. its all about where your at, be aware of your surroundings. if your uncomfortable in a shady area it will show, if you act like your from around there, that will also show.. i live in indianapolis, it's not AS bad as st louis but its got alot of bad areas, i usually work in these areas rehabing homes in the daytime and up till about 11pm some nights. a couple weeks ago there was a shooting 2 blocks over while i was working, heard the shots and then the sirens.. still ive never carried a handgun and have never really been threatened by something i felt i needed a gun for. aside from armed robberies at gas stations and the like, in this city for the most part it seems you have to put your self in a position to get shot at i.e. drugs, robbing, gangs, etc.. in all honesty id rather fight or give up my stuff than shoot/kill someone or start a shoot out on a block crammed with houses. my co-worker carries a .40 glock and does not feel the same as me lol but he's not always with me.
The way I see it, the only way the company is ever going to find out that I carry a gun is if I had to use one. And in that case, I wouldn't really care what the company policy was.
I would carry and not ask or tell. Think about it, under what circumstances would the company find out? The only way they could find out would be if you had to use it, in which case you made the right decision to carry. It's not about whether the trip takes you to (or through) a nice or "bad" part of town, it's not about whether the oil gets changed regularly on company vehicles, it's about your ability to protect yourself in an otherwise unpredictable and uncontrollable environment. The company isn't providing you with a bodyguard, the company isn't going to guarantee your personal safety, the company isn't going to defend you if something happens; that's your responsibility. If you were traveling with other people, who might discover your weapon due to their proximity to you, then you'd have reason to second guess. Traveling alone, carry.
I'd definitely carry. My company has the same policy with my company vehicle (well all of them.) We are a small company and the owner is pretty lenient so YMMV. I usually carry some mace and I always have a knife but generally I abide by the rule. I did have a problem once where I was being mistaken for a coworker and had someone run me out of the road. I carried for a while after that.
So I went in first thing this morning and spoke to our region VP as he would have to sign the form. We discussed it and he told me he honestly didn't know what to do in this situation as he only recently found out he could authorize it. I know he was being truthful as I was in the meeting when he found out and everyone was shocked. He said we could go set down with the HR manager to find out what the options were, but I told him we should just leave it at that and that I didn't want this to be public knowledge. He said he understood and that we could keep it between us. I also stressed that I was asking because I obey the rules and I pointed out that I could have easily just ignored them and no one would have been the wiser. He respected the fact that I asked.
So, I went and bought an ASP telescoping baton at lunch. Strangely it it gives me some peace of mind.
Honestly, it sounds like the VP didn't have the stones to make a decision one way or the other; and tried to pass that buck onto someone else. Namely, the HR manager. Don't get me wrong, I've dealt with executives. Your VP is very much normal.
I'm not to familiar with CCW but wouldn't you need one permit for every state? unless you're law enforcement. I'm assuming you live/work in OK and going to MO.
Is the CCW coverage for the ASP also reciprocal? I would thrown a 9 iron and some range balls in the back myself.
many states have CCW reciprocity.......
for example, i have my MA CCW......with my MA license, i can legally carry in MA, VT, IN,KY,TN,MO,OK,TX,AK,AZ,UT,ID,IA,SD,MT.....
its much the same as how your drivers license is valid in any state....
but not every state honors every other state...you you need to be careful.
My 9 iron cost more than the ASP.;D
I plan on slipping the ASP into my luggage. Oklahoma does have reciprocity with Missouri and from what I've read online the ASP is covered with a valid CCW permit, which I have. I think they are illegal in most states, or at least most surrounding states I've looked at.
I did find that I lucked out today. I'm getting one of the new trucks to take so that is a load off my mind.
Why would he want to stick his neck out so that someone can carry in a company vehicle against policy? Hard to see the win in that for the VP. You don't get to be a VP by randomly approving policy exceptions, most especially ones involving firearms.
You can say it is a lack of stones, I see it as someone with the best interest of themselves and the company in mind. Which of course is what he is paid for.
You are confusing the law, with company policy.
Similarly , freedom of speech allows you to call your boss a !@#$%!@#$!@#%!@#%$, and nobody is going to cuff you. Doesn't mean they can't can you for it.
No different than the confusion over Hank's BO comments the other day, and ESPN canning him. Kept reading on blogs about Hank's 'freedom of speech'. He had that freedom, exercised it, and didn't go to jail. Now, its a whole different story if the company paying you to represent them, wishes to continue doing so while you are publicly making disparaging remarks that will anger a portion of their viewers.
Lots of things are legal, is my point. Doesn't mean you can do them at work.
I see it differently. Re-read what Grayman wrote. Company policy it seems allows the VP to decide what to do in each case. It wouldn't have been some random exception.
Let's take a look at it from the VP's point of view. If he said "yes," and something had happened; he doesn't benefit in any way from it. Grayman forced to shoot a violent attacker, there's an investigation, company learns of the approval, now the VP is going to get the evil eye from the higher-ups. VP might lose his job. Worst case scenario, Grayman suffers an attack of road rage and losses it, big time! (Not likely at all, but we're talking about what's running through the VP's head.) He's definitely losing his job now! Not to mention facing being sued by the guy who got shot or the guy's relatives for big bucks.
Now if the VP had said "no," well (once again in the VP's mind) he just said no to an employee whom he knows owns a firearm. Employee not going to be too happy with him. VP doesn't want to anger a gun-owning employee. Guy might come into his office one day after having lost it, big time.
The VP had no stones because he simply tried to pass the buck, instead of actually giving an answer. If he honestly was simply looking out for his own interests and that of the company, he should have just said "no." Instead, he tried to pass the buck to let someone else make the decision. The VP was covering his own butt because he stood to gain zero if he had actually made a decision one way or the other.
Someone mentioned working on a federal location, it's worth reading the policy if the exceptions. I work on a military base that says no ccw & no weapons in private cars, which is what everyone will tell you & what the signs read. However, the actual policy letter reads "unless... travelling to an authorized event such as a match or hunting, or when traveling to an event requiring firearms after work." I belong to the sportsman club on base & a range off base, therefor I'm going to practice after work (I actually do get to shoot over lunch occasionally) & confirmed this with the base police (they of course don't recommend it). Don't trust people with out reading it yourself; even the Gun Club on base said it only applied to the side of the base you work on (ours is split by a hwy) however, this isn't written down anywhere. Of course this only covers unloaded transport but, that's better than noting. I also have the advantage that so long as I offer a mia culpa there is little that could be done to me in terms of loosing my job, etc. YMMV. I do enjoy the absurdity that there is a concern about someone having a shotgun or .22 rifle in their trunk in a place where automatic weapons are handed out...