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New Kershaw Cryo-Rick Hinderer Designed.

Discussion in 'Knives' started by sventvkg, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. jnsn

    jnsn Loaded Pockets

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    dont forget SRM, the 3rd party in the collab.. ive had good experiences with srm and kershaw so im def in for the cryo II. the original cryo seems kinda small for me, kind of like the srm 710.. great lil knife but a hair too small.
     
  2. Red33

    Red33 Loaded Pockets

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    hatchetjack,
    While I agree with the majority of your post, I do take exception with one point. I own $30 (and less) beaters up to $1000 customs. Just because it is a less expensive knife doesnt mean that it should have fit and finish issues. I have the less expensive Spyderco models, several Cold Steel, Boker, etc, all without issues. It is my opinion that if your going to manufacture knives, you should be able to send them out the door with the blade centered and somewhat sharpened. Yes, some slip by QC. I was a QC person for a long time, so I know it happens. I can live with that. Should it be acceptable? No.
    I am a true dyed in the wool Chris Reeve fan. I own more Sebenza models than any other brand. But recently, a $25 knife has my Sebenza's doing a tour of duty in the safe. I was hoping that lightning would strike twice. It was not to be.
    Once agin, not a Kershaw bash. I have a Leek I am extremely fond of, and carry on a semi-regular basis. So no hate mail, please. lol
     
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  3. mrpink

    mrpink Banned

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    exactly
     
  4. weizenale

    weizenale Loaded Pockets

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    Weird i have 23 Kershaws and not one has come dull or even close.Everyone is razor sharp .I don't own this knife though waiting on a Kershaw Ram instead..
     
  5. hatchetjack

    hatchetjack EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I don't recall saying anything about that in this thread? I did say I had one for a couple of weeks then sold it and the other was this: My reason to pick one up was to see if there was anything special for the $30 Hinderer Designed knife. After a couple of weeks, I sold it. Was I disappointed? No.....it's what I would have expected for a $30 dollar knife..
    I made no comment about fit and finish here.
     
  6. Rawls

    Rawls Loaded Pockets

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    I definitely think that is possible, but they main problems weren't fit and finish issues, but design ones like the weight and the positively slick handles.

    I have a SS Zing coming so we'll see if a different design with the same materials does better.
     
  7. mrpink

    mrpink Banned

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    his point was that your assumption that a $30 would have to be as bad this knife in question or worse is highly incorrect. does that clarify things for you?
     
  8. Chimay

    Chimay Loaded Pockets

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    Seems like this a lot of this may be a QC issue. Perhaps they ramped up production after the initial shipment? I've personally handled 4 of these knives all purchased through Amazon right after they started shipping. All had centered blades, after the first opening all flipped open and locked solidly, and all were pretty sharp out of the box. With a decent angle they would shave arm air without a problem. Oddly none were as sharp as the Blackout I bought years ago... Sucks that they don't seem to be consistent. My understanding is that Kershaw will fix any of those problems, or that's why I buy from Amazon... They'll have UPS back at my house the next day to pick up the product and refund no questions asked.

    Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. Red33

    Red33 Loaded Pockets

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    Maybe I misunderstood your meaning. I put the sentences in bold thatI took it from. I meant no disrespect, but the general idea I took away from this was you thought it was acceptable for a inexpensive knife to have flaws. If this was not the case, I apologize for any confusion on my part.
     
  10. kertap75

    kertap75 EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I think you just attributed the post to the wing person the first time. But as a general statement quality control is a big part of the difference between an inexpensive knife and an expensive one. Costs are cut in many ways of course. Sometimes through having a simple design. Sometimes by having larger tolerances accepted in manufacturing. Also, new products, from cars to clothes and everything in between have a higher chance of having defects. The only important thing to consider in my mind is what the company does about these mistakes
    Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2
     
  11. hatchetjack

    hatchetjack EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Actually I think his point was aimed at someone else's post?
     
  12. TX expat

    TX expat Loaded Pockets

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    I've been carrying a RAM for a while now and I still love mine. I think you'll be pleased.
     
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  13. Red33

    Red33 Loaded Pockets

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    Duh, just saw my mistake. hatchetjack, my apologies. I just glanced at the name wrong. It was kertap's post I meant to address.
    kertap, quality control is quality control. If a product is to meet a certain set of guidelines, then it should meet those guidelines. Now if their guidelines state that the blade does not have to be centered, and it can be shipped out dull....then not a whole lot I can say. But I doubt that be the case.
    I am sure I could return it to the seller, which in this case was Amazon, for a refund or replacement. Or, I could send it in to Kershaw for repair or possible replacement. Both of those options are open to me and are great. The point is I should not have too. Whether it be a $5 item or a $500 dollar item, it should not have to be repaired or worked on before you use it. Like I said, I was a QC person for many years. Things slip by. I understand that. But in my experience, I have not had very good luck with products from Kershaw.
     
  14. popedandy

    popedandy Loaded Pockets

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    I took some time to read some of the reviews on Rawls's website. I enjoyed his reviews and will be reading more of them, but they are not consistent and they raised some questions. The Cryo review in particular appears to be seriously flawed. Here are some of the things that stood out:

    1. It appears that he has a very strong preference for lightweight knives. As a general rule, I like to be aware of a reviewer's biases, so it would have been nice to see that stated somewhere.
    2. Although he slams the Cryo for its weight and size in the pocket, he describes the bigger and heavier ZT350 as "not so large as to be difficult to carry."
    3. He describes it as "massively wide." That is interesting, since when I hold it up against my son's Delica 4, which is generally considered to be a pretty good knife, the Cryo at the widest point, that being the flipper, is a little bit narrower than the Delica at its widest point, that being the spyderhole. Since the wider Delica is considered okay, I'm not sure how one could arrive at the conclusion that the narrower Cryo is massively wide.
    4. He makes multiple errors in his review on the weight of the Cryo. The only correction is a short note at the end. Is it not possible to edit the text? One would think that an honest reviewer would make an attempt to correct such a gross error. If it is not possible to correct the text, it would be good to get the facts right the first time, especially when you know people will be relying on your reviews to help them form their opinions.
    5. He criticizes the frame lock on the Cryo for being difficult to disengage because there is not enough protrusion to get ahold of. When I checked it against my Kershaw Selectfire and a McCusta, the lock on the Cryo actually protrudes a little bit more that either of those.
    6. He uses blade length to weight of knife ratio as a rating criteria. I fail to see the relevance of that measurement.
    7. He describes the thumb studs as stops for the blade. They are not.
    8. He would prefer a better blade steel at a higher price point, although he does find the current blade steel adequate. It is worth noting that the steel used is very common in Chinese-made knives at this price point. Spyderco's Byrd line, which sells at a similar price point, uses the same steel. A.G. Russell, who has a well-earned reputation in the knife universe, has described it as a good performing steel.
    9, He does not like the smooth steel handles. I think it is a valid point, but it is worth noting that other knives in the same price range (several knives in Spyderco's Byrd line), as well as other more expensive knives (the Spyderco Police stainless steel) have them.

    What did I learn from this? Well, first I learned that when you do knife reviews, you are an easy target for criticism. You have to be willing to take some heat from folks like me who disagree with you and have the luxury of dissecting your reviews point by point. Kudos to Rawls for putting the time and effort into doing the reviews and for being willing to put his opinions out in the public eye. However, my real concern is that he developed a strong dislike for this particular knife and _apparently_ let that dislike skew his objectivity while he was writing the review. That is unfortunate because it not only renders the review useless, but is also grossly misleading to folks who read his reviews and rely on them to help them make their knife purchasing decisions.
     
  15. Blerv

    Blerv Loaded Pockets

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    8Cr13Mov isn't bad at all. It's so close to AUS8 most couldn't tell a difference without lab equipment. Even if, it would be tough.

    More of a blade's performance is attributed to how it's ground assuming the heat treat isn't all messed up. No, a Tenacious is not a S90v Para2 but it's sure easy to sharpen and is pretty tough. It's also about 7 times cheaper.
     
  16. Rawls

    Rawls Loaded Pockets

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    I did not correct the text on purpose. I wanted people to see I made a mistake and know that I corrected it and that it did not change my overall opinion that much. Ni decided to do that because I thought that was the most honest and transparent way to go about it, sort of like saying "see I made a mistake".

    The cyro loses points compared to the ZT350 because one is strictly an edc knife while the other could be flexed into other roles. Note that the weight differential is not that great especially when you consider the increased capabilities and the extra half inch blade.

    The blade does not need to be that wide and it is an issue as the thumb studs tend to snag when removing the knife. The Delica is wide too and I complain about that in other reviews but the width is not that big of a deal because the lack of studs avoids the real problem with the width--difficult pocket extraction.

    The frame lock is difficult to disengage especially compared to other knives. Note that the Zing SS has an extra bump to help disengage the lock. Same price and materials. Better design.

    I wrote a piece on why ratios matter. But a short explanation is this: get as much free blade length as possible. Weight is the same thing, get as much utility for as little weight as possible. It is a bias of mine--what can I say I like more for less.

    Again with the stops, I acknowledge the mistake.

    As for the steel, yep it is okay, but it is not as good as the 14c28n steel on the skyline, an equally cheap knife. I know why they didn't use it, but still,I like more for less. Call me crazy.

    I generally don't like SS handles, absent some good jimping or grippy handle shape, regardless of price.

    Thanks for reading the review. I do try to state my biases over and over again, for the very reason you named. Article forthcoming on this very point.

    The Cryo still stinks. Carrying the Zing SS right now proves this point to me. Review on that also forthcoming.
     
  17. mrpink

    mrpink Banned

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    its better than aus8 for sure. aus8 is horrible.
     
  18. Blerv

    Blerv Loaded Pockets

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    AUS8 and 8Cr13Mov have pretty similar properties, at least nothing to make them drastically different in character. YMMV though :).

    I believe the main problem is we all know about AUS8 because it’s been out a long time. Further, we remember it mostly for being a value steel in $15 folders rather than higher end Japanese products. Proper heat treat and edge geometry are huge factors with how well a knife will perform.On the other side 8Cr13Mov is a fairly recent product for us to see in quality Chinese folders; some of these are spectacular knives like the Tenacious.

    I could be wrong though. I've had half a dozen AUS8 folders and none of them being spectacular except a first gen Spyderco Dragonfly. My Spyderco Meerkat was AUS6 and better than some of the lesser reputable makers' knives in 440c and AUS8. Figures since it was a pretty expensive Seki-City knife for the time.
     
  19. Rawls

    Rawls Loaded Pockets

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    Well done AUS 8 is quite nice. I liked it on my AMK Hawk. Generally though people don't put in the effort to get all they can out of the steel because for less money and time they can just buy better performance with newer steels.
     
  20. Racer

    Racer Loaded Pockets

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    Maybe the quality of a review sample is inversely proportionate to the prominence of the reviewer?

    Either way it looks like an aberration. 4.5 stars on Amazon with 22 reviews is good enough to put this knife on my wish list. If the QC was an epic fail, then shouldn't that reflect in the totality of the reviews? I'm not doubting the reviewer received a truly awful sample. What I am doubting is that awful sample being the norm. I'm still interested :)