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New crowdsourced product developments as we go along......

Discussion in 'Alpha One Niner (bags & gear)' started by HELM, Jun 21, 2014.

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  1. BeantownJ

    BeantownJ Loaded Pockets

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    Thanks for the comment. Yes, that is different dimensions, capacity and has not internal frame sheet or stays. It also has double side access vs. the front panel access. Great bag, but very different and not for me.
     
  2. easygamer

    easygamer Loaded Pockets

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    what about hidden spaces like in the seams where you could hide maybe a few banknotes or a mini knife maybe spyderco ladybug size
     
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  3. IThinkTooMuch

    IThinkTooMuch Loaded Pockets

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    1) Non-tactical - EDC packs should be like staple foods: nutritious, but bland. This is a pack that will need to fit into multiple environments.
    2) Lots and lots of pockets in a large admin compartment big enough for a scientific calculator/checkbook/glasses case, etc., and with enough structure to pocket clip knives, flashlights, etc into. This is a good place for molle. The typical skinny pencil compartments are just this side of usless.
    3) Chain zippers. Easier to repair then coil zippers and typically the first thing to wear out.
    4) 20L-30L
    5) "S" curved shoulder straps with sternum strap
    6) No hip belt. Never had one that fits my 20" torso.
    7) Semi-rigid frame to give it some structure and not crumple when unloaded or oddly loaded.
    8) Single main compartment with pocket for 15" laptop and molle strips on the front/side. This is a laptop capable pack, but not a dedicated laptop bag.
    9) Minimum outside pockets (main compartment, admin compartment) to discourage thieves,
    10) External water bottle pouch(es) big enough to swallow a 1L nalgene.
    11) Lash points for jackets on pack body and for cell phone holsters on pack straps.
    12) Compression straps
     
  4. George Johnson IV

    George Johnson IV Loaded Pockets

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    Something that I've been thinking about that I think would be cool if you go with some form of tube shape would be an elevator of sorts. My blow out kit on my plate carrier works like this. Basically a there is a handle and a piece of webbing that runs underneath the contents so when you pull up on the handle it lifts all the items up. Might be an additional accessory you could sell that velcros in or hooks in. I think it might be a good way to separate clothes from a toiletry kit or something along those lines.
     
  5. hutten

    hutten Loaded Pockets

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    There's a few comments on waterproof/weatherproof. Not sure if this has already been said - I don't have time right now to read the whole thread, but that might not be such a good idea. Proper waterproof bags are available, but they have a roll top like normal drybags, and thus, are not very convenient.

    Less waterproof options are an idea, but if they are not completely waterproof, they will of course let in water. Once they let in even a small amount of water, they take forever to dry out. If you've ever worn Goretex boots in poor weather, you may know this. This effect is magnified as more water gets in. And of course, all your stuff will be soaked.

    One way to get around this is to have a bag that dries quickly (and yes, it would get wet quickly as well). That way, the end user can decide if they need waterproofing, and only store essentials in small, lightweight drybags. I personally like this way of doing things a lot better.

    Just my $.02.

    (And please no MOLLE, unless inside. It's screams tactical. And it's nice to be able to get away from that preconception.)
     
  6. Xader

    Xader EDC Junkie

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    Specifically the Zippy Urban, since he specified no MOLLE

    As for my suggestions for a bag, I'm of the opinion that tall and thin trumps short and wide every time.

    For those of us 6' and taller, short, wide packs are very uncomfortable and look absolutely idiotic. The round shape, combined with straps that are never long enough, makes for a large tumor between the shoulder blades.

    No bueno.
     
    Last edited by Xader, Jun 23, 2014
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  7. vinniec5

    vinniec5 Loaded Pockets

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    Another idea for a frame instead of a rigid frame is have sleeves for plastic/aluminum stiffeners like the SO Tech has available, that way they can be removed when needed
     
  8. Tixx

    Tixx Loaded Pockets

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    Hmmm...would it be easier if we did polls like:

    1) Size - Liters/CU
    2) Type - backpack, sling, messenger...
    3) Bottle holders - current design, full 32oz nalgene, canteen...

    Build it piece by piece so it is easier to get a feel for what we are building. Just a thought as there are posts full of good info, just not sure how to capture it for a real feel of what members want.
     
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  9. WruceBillis

    WruceBillis Loaded Pockets

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    A medium sized low profile CCW bag that's designed for behind the back draw, tried it with my current bag and I really like the way it works.

    Did I mention I'd pay a whole paycheck for that?
     
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  10. HELM
    • Sponsor - Manufacturer

    HELM Loaded Pockets

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    I just wanted to say that I love the work you do......Helm
     
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  11. HELM
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    HELM Loaded Pockets

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    Just got back and had a chance to read all the new posts/replies. Guys, if I may, this is hopefully the first of many projects to come. For right now I'd like to go back to the original idea of a daypack. I know some of you have your sights set on messengers, larger packs, etc and hopefully we will get to those on follow-up projects. For now let's stick with a daypack.

    Understandably a daypack may not appeal to everyone but we already knew this at the start and have mentioned so. As such there is only so much that a daypack can have, hold or offer. A daypack is an easy first project albeit one that cannot have everything that all of us wishes. So for now, I'll summarize it as follows:
    • This will be a 17 to 20 liter pack - now granted this might change as the outer design of the pack evolves
    • Based on the majority of what I'm reading here, it will have a separate notebook compartment that can also double as a hydration bladder holder.
    • That leaves the main compartment open for PALS webbing (loop) on one wall and possibly a double zippered mesh pocket system on the opposite wall.
    • Side water bottle holders that are stashable or can be hidden if unused.
    • CCW sleeve
    • Well padded back with frame sheet and well padded shoulder straps
    • Nylon external fabric, lighter colored lining, YKK zippers (am looking at waterproof zippers) and WooJin/Duraflex hardware is a given.
    • Optional/detachable beaver tail with additional zippered pocket
    • Having looked at the back of @jma78 's pack has given me an idea of an adjustable shoulder straps.
    The above as a base to work from and we'll sort out the pockets, pouches and MOLLE next.
    It's bedtime for Bonzo, will check in mañana. Thanks.......Helm
     
  12. Akilae

    Akilae Loaded Pockets

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    Interesting approach. I don't quite think I'll be the target demographic for this, since I'll be the lone voice of dissent on one key element, but here are what I look for in a good EDC pack:

    -I do NOT want ANY sort of gun compartment. There are a lot of of us who like to go grey man, and the LAST thing I want on my back is a pack that is KNOWN to be a CCW-capable pack. In line with that, I also do not want ANY PALS, anywhere.

    -I do not want an integrated padded laptop compartment. This only adds weight and bulk when not carrying a laptop. I would, however, highly recommend adding something akin to the Kifaru interior common loops or the Tom Bihn rail system they have on the Synapse 25 (which, by the way, are entirely interchangeable, one's accessories will work on the other). This allows for the option to add in a padded laptop carrier if necessary, and also serve as very useful bungee loops.

    -1500 cu-in is a good size for the main sack if going for a larger front pouch (see below), assuming gong by ASTM standards. 1800 is the absolute max if going for a small/thin front admin pouch. 1/2 to 3/4 clamshell opening would be nice. Hi-vis interior liner, day-glo orange preferred.

    -Interior bladder pocket that can also double as a laptop pouch if necessary. Should have a routing port to make this a true hydration-compatible pack.

    -Front admin pouch that is large enough capacity to carry, say, a beanie, a buff, and a pair of gloves, along with all the other usual admin suspects. For this, my personal gold standard is the Kelty Peregrine front admin pouch. One of the best I've seen so far.

    -Water bottle side pockets. However, my personal pet peeve: They should be as wide as the MOLLE 1-qt canteen pouches, but tall enough to swallow a standard 1-qt Nalgene without the top of the bottle showing, with bungee loops if possible. I have personally found this size combination to provide the best overall utility for carrying all kinds of things, not just water. Ideally, the side pockets would be entirely nylon fabric, not mesh. Bungee cord to close the top of the pocket, instead of the usual elastic band.

    -Two sets of compression straps. One that also compresses the side pockets, the other along the top portion of the pack. The compression straps should compress the main sack and side pockets only, not the admin pouch.

    -Even for something like a 1500 cu-in pack, some sort of pack stiffener is necessary. Quite a number of us are finding out about this with the Kifaru Zippy. Even the el-cheapo system used in the MOLLE 2 assault packs (HDPE panel with thin foam pad) would work very well. Stays and belt not necessary and only add weight.

    -Shoulder straps should not be overly padded. Kifaru and TB make supremely comfortable straps that are minimally padded. On the other hand, Mystery Ranch has super padded straps that are laborious to get into... what matters is the shape of the shoulder strap.
     
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  13. HELM
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    HELM Loaded Pockets

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    I hear you sir but there is much more to a CCW compartment than just for guns. It could easily be a primary or even secondary tablet compartment, you can have velcro kits to hold slim items in there and when you're traveling that can be the semi-hidden compartment where you stash your passport or your whole travel wallet. You can even Velcro a compact IFAK in there.

    On a separate note I have mentioned this on a different thread that I am not a proponent for having my carry pistol in a bag. It remains on my strong side unless I have to have it in the pack for some reason. But this appears to be what others like and less about moi.

    I even want my notebook wrapped in a Faraday Sleeve but that's me and unless the others want it too, I'll skip this ;)
     
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  14. Akilae

    Akilae Loaded Pockets

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    I hear you on this. I will say this though: I do think there is space that could be used between the main sack and the front pouch. If done right, it can be everything from a CCW compartment to a tablet/passport/anything flat pocket.

    Ultimately, the "perfect pack" is just a pipe dream. If between all the EDCF members we can hit 75% of what each person wants without resorting to PALS, then we have a pretty solid winner.

    Aw heck, since we're talking about pipe dreams, I'll even throw in the flashlight cave from vintage Fast Pack Alpha 2s.
     
  15. cowsmilk

    cowsmilk EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I like the Idea of the hidden compartment on the GGG stealth operator pack, but do not like how to access it. I think the vertical zipper is stupid, in that application. Whether you put a gun in there, or spare, hidden travel documents makes no difference.

    Also, my personal preference for a day pack would include space for no bigger than a 13" laptop. I like what @akilae said about having it modular, having "hangers" in the main compartment for hydration/laptop sleeve hanging.

    And I similarly do not prefer molle for an EDC pack. Camping/hiking/etc is different. I do like how Kifaru makes the "slick" packs with the lock and load attachment points, but for an EDC pack, I don't think they are necessary, personally.

    I really like the Osprey Flapjack pack for a backpack for travel, but I wish they made one sized smaller. A 25 liter pack is just too large for my EDC. I ended up giving it to one of my boys for a school pack. He loves it. If I was a student again, I might get another one. What I'd really like is a 15-20 liter sized Flapjack, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.:( (not saying that you have to, or should make one of those, hopefully that is clear.)

    For materials, I prefer sil-nylon or dyneema to mesh. I've had bad times with mesh so I stay away from it.

    For side water bottle pockets, maybe you could have a zipper on each side that hides a sip-nylon pull-out pouch big enough for a 32oz nalgene. If you don't use it, or don't need it, it stays compact and out of the way.
     
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  16. tkill

    tkill Loaded Pockets

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    I like where you are going with it.
    1. Waterproof zippers are nice... but they aren't as smooth opening/closing as standard YKK zippers. I'd only want a waterproof zipper on the laptop compartment, if that.
    2. I'm not a big beavertail fan... but a removable beavertail is an interesting idea!
    3. Main compartment should be of a clamshell design to allow full use of the PALS webbing in there.
    4. Thumbs up to the zippered mesh pockets opposite of the PALS. I love the zippered mesh design of the EDC pack in the front compartment.
    5. Removable sternum strap, and at least put D rings on for the option of a removable waist strap. I know the waist strap isn't needed for load bearing purposes on a pack this size, but I like them for stability reasons.
    6. Compression straps aren't necessarily needed on a pack this size, but they often give you a discrete place to hang/attach/secure items on the outside.
     
  17. HELM
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    HELM Loaded Pockets

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    A real quick thanks to everyone who's chimed in with ideas and suggestions, and to @twogunmojo, @Xader and @jma78 for posting pics.

    Twogunmojo, FYI, first spear was born out of the ashes of the eagle industries of old. It's the same guys; Carter, Laplume, Cole, Langston, etc. Know them well. I also know Mel from Kifaru, good guy. And Dan from Sneaky Bags used to worked for them too at one time. It's a small industry as you can see.
     
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  18. HELM
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    This subject of MOLLE or no MOLLE is going to go on forever so I might as well just make it clear that we would probably end up with two versions. The non MOLLE version will be the base model and from there we create additional patterns to include the MOLLE. This is easy stuff.

    Pockets and pouches to be looked into next.

    Question - has anyone used the GGG Stealth Pack that @cowmilk alluded too? I'd like to know, for a fact, if those oversize d-rings they use to connect the shoulder straps to the back actually works. Or is it just gimmicky? If it really does that could alleviate some concerns about having to make the straps adjustable width wise.

    Alright back to work 'cos I have a ton of pouches to finish.
     
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  19. FlyersFanJV

    FlyersFanJV Loaded Pockets

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    To be honest, I'm a big fan of sling bags, but I'd like to see one with instead of a stabilizing strap like Maxpedition uses, a y type buckle and another strap coming over the shoulder. So a sling bag that has a straps over both shoulders, and a quick release for the secondary strap to release it so I can sling it around, that way it takes the pressure off of a single shoulder.
     
  20. twogunmojo

    twogunmojo Banned

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    i did not know that...i do know its a small industry...thanks..
     
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