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Munroe Dangler Clone

Discussion in 'Keychain Tools' started by gibbsrule9, Oct 9, 2012.

  1. Rocket1

    Rocket1 Loaded Pockets

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    I sent an email to Munroe last year but never got a reply. I guess I'll give it another try. I'd prefer to have the original and support their work and design idea
     
  2. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Wow . . . You've completely missed the concept of R&D costs. Costs absolutely needed bring an idea to reality in the first place. It costs thieves nothing to steal an idea. They have no R&D costs that they must off-set in order to not just make a profit, but just to stay in business. Directly opposite of what the person who came up with the idea has to deal with. The person without whom, the cheap knock-offs wouldn't even exist for you to enjoy. Also, it's unrealistic to expect such a person to horribly de-value his own creations / brand by making some of his units out of cheap junk at a fraction of the cost simply because you or others feel that it's realistic to get a quality tool at a low-ball figure. I'll even go out on a limb and say that if Peter did make a stainless steel prybaby, he wouldn't be able to sell it for only $20. Unless he decided to lose money on each unit. Just to break even at that price which was clearly pulled out of the air, he'd have to use the absolutely cheapest steel he could get his hands on. Give it a rough shape, not even bother with the time needed to smooth out that rough shape, and then put his name on it. Then again, I doubt he'd put his name on something like that.

    Also, yes; there are individuals willing to pay the price for the genuine article. I know a Pizza man who wears a real Montblanc pen in the top of his shirt pocket when he's making pizza. I used to work with a fellow security guard who owned a genuine Armani suit. (And that's not a profession that pays a lot.) I also used to work with a guy who owned a Cartier Diablo pen. I myself own a Pelikan M800. I know a college student in Italy who owns 3 different Omega watches. And I mean brand new ones bought at an Omega boutique. (Translation: Full price, no discounts given on watches costing several thousands of dollars each. Once again he's got 3 of them.) He drives around in a piece of $#!% little car that looks like a Geo Metro and is falling apart. But, it doesn't change the fact that he chooses to pay the premium to own those watches. Or that others also make that same decision. Same thing with an Atwood.

    It's just an excuse that these thieves sell their knock-offs to those who otherwise could never afford to pay the prices for the real things. Therefore what these miserable thieves do, is somehow O.K. I know another guy who just spent 9K on a watch that he has wanted for years. He's not rich. He's a working stiff who saved his money, sacrificed by not going out as often with his friends on the weekends, sold a couple of items he no longer had any use for, picked up some overtime at work, etc. Now, he has the watch he has wanted for years. (Personally I'd never pay even close to that amount for a single timepiece. But that's not the point.) He wanted it, he found a way to get it . . . instead of some cheap knock-off.
     
  3. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    Looking at the two posts, The "Knockoff" is not much of a copy, unless they are using the name, there is not much similarity besides the basic shape. The Real thing is much thicker at the fold and has a forged look to it, whereas the knockoff is round and thinner at the bend.
     
  4. gibbsrule9
    • Memoria in Aeterna
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    gibbsrule9 Memoria in Aeterna

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    Now I find myself desiring a knockoff of their cross design.
     
  5. tal-c

    tal-c Loaded Pockets

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    I get the "R&D costs" when it comes to actual technology, not what's been called very, VERY freely in the past years "design".
    when it comes to PC chips, car engines, and flying laser atomic motorcycles I'll be willing to justify the R&d cost, but as a mechanical engineer and a hobby-machinist, I don't see any possible way I would be willing to pay anything close to 60$ on this bent sheet metal weekend-long design.

    Reading what I just wrote I'm thinking I might come off a bit harsh or rude (and I really mean no offense to any EDCF member), but seriously... there is tech, there is design, and there is good ol' greed.
     
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  6. TECENG
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
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    • In Omnia Paratus

    TECENG Loaded Pockets

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    Greed.
    Sometimes what seems like even the most simplest of designs can take a number of prototypes to "get it right". I agree with the fact that in no way it compares to true R&D with respect to a computer for example, but it always seems so easy to disregard someone's labor as not being a "real" cost. If you made this yourself (this weekend-long design), what is the value of your time over a weekend vs. paying for a finished product?

    Perhaps the manufacturer had to develop tooling to make this product production-worthy and cost-effective to fabricate. Your weekend project might end up looking like just that, whereas this manufacturer must have to produce what looks like a finished product, and also consider packaging, marketing, fulfillment, warranty, etc.

    If a DIY weekend project gets you what you want at the cost you like, go for it. For the people who do not have the skills or desire and are willing to pay the price, there are people out there willing to fulfill this niche. And if they come up with an idea that others like, why should they not be rewarded with a decent profit. Heck, why not a huge profit if people are willing to pay for it. It may lead to business expansion and other new innovative products. Free enterprise my friends.
     
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  7. tal-c

    tal-c Loaded Pockets

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    I agree with you about letting people buy what they feel is worth their money, but I still can't justify making a (what seems to me, by my technical knowledge alone) a TOO big profit off a small community like EDCers.

    I'm not a big fan of intellectual property (more when it's not that intellectual), and as long as it's not presented by the genuine namebrand, I don't care if the ebay seller markets them as "get your own fake munroe clip thingy for cheap".
     
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  8. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    How do you know how much the project costs? Have you ever made anything like this?

    You might think more of it if it were your intellectual property.
     
  9. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    My question is: Are they marketing it as a Monroe?

    If so, it is trademark infringement. If not, it only bears a passing resemblance to the Monroe Clip.

    Yes, you can make a patent on a "device for hanging keys from various flat planes", but how many foldover type pocket hangers are there? (The Monroe is not a foldover, it is billet, the "knock off" is a foldover. Different process.)
     
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  10. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    BTW I am planning on forging a hanger when I get the chance. (Maybe next summer.) I hope nobody thinks I am stealing something.
     
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  11. KeyeEl

    KeyeEl EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Passing resemblance? They left out the Munroe logo, used different material and flipped which side the Dangler/bottle opener are on. Otherwise looks like its twin.

    PS. I personally don't agree with supporting flat out copies, whether they are marketed as the real thing or not. That said, what others spend their money on is up to them.
     
    Last edited by KeyeEl, Oct 21, 2012
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  12. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    By that you can say that the late model Mustangs and Chargers are twins.

    Look at the way the bend is treated: On the clone it is thinned out and bent over, on the Monroe, it is built in that shape, very thick and faceted at the top. Other than that, it is a piece of metal in a U shape with holes in it.
     
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  13. cowsmilk

    cowsmilk EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Now gosh darn it! I was thinking about doing that.:D

    So in all seriousness, I'm going to start a new line of folding knives called Benchemaid knives. I'm going to have a symbol in the shape of a moth laser etched on the blade. What do you think?

    I'm mobile, baby!:)

    My Avatar says:
    "Stop looking at my udders!"
     
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  14. KeyeEl

    KeyeEl EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    But the size is the same. The holes are in the same spot. Even the various grinds and cutouts are the same. The location of the bottle opener in relation to the "clip" is the same.

    Now whether this bothers you or not is your decision. Saying its not a blatant copy/rip-off is stretching it.
     
  15. Vaper

    Vaper Banned

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    I've owned both, and for a short time I owned both simultaneously. I ordered the clone when I despaired of ever getting my hands on a real Munroe. I liked it well enough, except the bottle opener would often catch on my pocket when trying to clip it. The clone is slightly larger than the Munroe, thicker, heavier and the bottle opener is cut higher than on the Munroe, causing the catch problem (which, to be fair, also happens with the Munroe, though not as easily) and also making it more difficult to open bottles with.

    The Munroe is much, much nicer. Whether it's nice enough to merit the price is a decision for each individual. Personally, it bothered me that mine was a knock-off. The stolen design made me feel guilty to have bought it, even though I did so only because a legitimate one seemed unattainable. (To be clear, I'm not judging anyone who chooses the clone--I did it myself. I'm only relating my own personal reaction to it).

    Finally it bothered me enough to write to Jana Munroe to see if I could get on a waiting list for the next time Deryk made any Danglers. To my surprise, they had one in stock and I purchased it. Wish I'd known it was that easy. After receiving the Dangler, I sent Jana and Deryk my clone to dispose of, defile or deride as they wished, and I feel better now.
     
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  16. hatchetjack

    hatchetjack EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I was lucky enough to score a real one because of this thread (thanks gibbsrule9). They are spendy and I'm just a working guy but having the original is a pride in ownership that I personally enjoy. In the end, we all buy what we feel is appropriate for us.
     
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  17. DBR

    DBR Loaded Pockets

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    It would be interesting to know where the idea originated. Because it might not have been Munroe at all. I have no idea but I do know that these little cottage industries springing up with gadgets is an awesome thing. Months ago on here, someone posted a link to this coin carrier for your pocket. I went to the site and it's a pretty cool item and I don't remember how it was worded but it was pretty clear that this guy invented this thing, etc. Well, not too long after that, I was on E-bay and saw something from the 1920s or 30s, made out of brass that was the same, exact thing. So, did the guy have a stroke of brilliance and, decades later, invent the same thing? Quite possibly! Stranger things have happened! Or, did he Patent something he found in an old junk shop after researching and finding out there was never a Patent on it? That's "R&D," too.

    I don't quite understand why this particular piece of metal is being condemned, however. There are so many people around here with these Sanrenmu, whatever they are called, "Fauxbenza" counterfeit Chris Reeve Sebenzas - why is it okay for so many people to take food off of Chris Reeve's table but a sin over this?

    I don't particularly want to carry things in this way, so I'm not interested in acceptance of the cheaper "ding-dangler-thing."
     
  18. Fate0n3

    Fate0n3 Loaded Pockets

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    Well I am glad I stumbled across this thread I have been looking for a way to contact Munroe. I sent an e-mail to both the e-mails listed here hopefully I hear something back and can get one coming to me.
     
  19. tal-c

    tal-c Loaded Pockets

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    I did and do these kind of "projects" at work every day, since part of my job is to know how much each part I design for my firm costs. bent sheet-metal parts with cutouts are very common, and are among the cheapest to fabricate.

    I can understand the "pride of ownership" mentality, and I too would pay for an original omega watch rather than getting a fake one - even if they looked the same... but I can't project the value of intellectual property from the complexity of a watch, an engine or a CPU to something that seems so simple to me.

    maybe a carpenter feels the same when he see a 1000$ wooden chair, a tailor who see a 300$ tee shirt, or a cook that see 1000$ steak. :)
    mmmm... steak...
     
    Last edited by tal-c, Oct 22, 2012
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  20. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    I don't know about the bottle opener addition, but pocket hangers go back to the early 1900's, at least - they were used on the ends of pocket watch chains.
     
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