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Modern Autos

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Red Horn, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. jggonzalez

    jggonzalez Loaded Pockets

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    I've got a Kahr MK9. I actually like it better than my customized Dan Wesson 1911 Bobtail. If I were going to get a new pistol it would probably be the Kahr P45. I handled one and it fit my hand perfectly and I know the Kahrs shoot well. The offset barrel allows them to get the bore lower than other designs. Give one a try, I think you'll like it.
     
  2. saniterra

    saniterra Loaded Pockets

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    I'm keeping a subcompact XD 9 for a friend of mine. Haven't used it but it handles like a brick with a grip. Of course, since I don't like hammerless autos, I can rarely find nice things to say about them. So I would suggest that you check out one of the Sig-certified pre-owned P226 or P229's, particularly in 40 S&W or .357 Sig. You can get a target grade 9mm conversion barrel for either from Bar-Sto and either a 40 or 357 factory barrel from a number of dealers. Some of the pre-owned guns are as good as new and can be had with or without rails. Great, great pistols. Another very good pistol is the CZ 75 series, available in full size and compact, 9mm and 40 S&W, decocker or :censored: & lock double or single action. The full size CZ 75 is the most reliable, best shooting and handling 9mm (other than the Sigs) that I have ever used and it is priced very competitively with Glocks, XD's, Taurus, Walthers and Steyrs and is much cheaper than new Sigs and HKs. The EAA Witness is a cheaper knock off of the CZ, made by Tangfolio of Italy, and is said to be very reliable and comparable to the CZ in quality and accuracy. It should handle nearly the same as the CZ and is available in a fairly wide variety of standard calibers.
     
  3. chriscoobs

    chriscoobs Empty Pockets

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    I am a new convert to the polymer gun world but have really been happy with the XD series. I stayed away for several years but am happy with this series. I have a 9mm bitone and a .40 olive drab both in 4". My first hand gun was a sig226(9mm) then a sig220 (.45). I love the ergonomics of both guns for different reasons. I feel my hand wraps around a Sig almost perfectly, where i find the xd series conforms my hand to the frame's shape, if that makes sense. Any XD,or Sig will give you reliable service, Just find a good range and try out several options, you cant go wrong with either. 
     
  4. Patriot

    Patriot Empty Pockets

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    Nines are for girls. There are too many people walking around that have been shot by nines numerous times. Some even walk out of the hospital the same night. I know, I know, shot placement. When the day comes you have INCOMING rounds, tell me about perfect shot placement. They are great for paper targets and limp wrists, though.
     
  5. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    I have a couple of issues with this post.

    1. Nines are for girls: I know quite a few "girls" that shoot .44 magnum, .357 magnum, and .45 ACP as well as the 9x19.

    2. I know about incoming rounds.

    3. Limp wrists????

    ----------------------------------------------------

    I am all for people giving why something is good or bad for an application. This one is highly debatable but I do think it is worth discussing.

    Instead of throwing a blanket insult perhaps it would be better to try and use as much evidence as possible rather than calling it a girls cartridge.

    I myself have carried .45 ACP, .38 Super, .357 magnum, 9x23, 9x19, and .38 special. I have my opinions on the subject but I have carried 9x19 rightly or wrongly and do not consider myself a girl. On the other hand many a girl carries hard kicking large rounds so I don't understand what girls have to do with it.

    Talk about and debate state opinions on items all you want but please don't throw insults.
     
  6. Red Horn

    Red Horn Loaded Pockets

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    :iagree:.
     
  7. Rob72

    Rob72 Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah. Uh-hunh.
    And .45, 10mm, .40 S&W. I worked Sedgwick Co. EMS, and ran quite a few shoots, some by WPD and SGSO. No one walks the same night unless they're wearing a vest...or they go to jail...but those are generally ICU admits, and not same-night :D
    Doing your job with incoming and and not being sworn & carrying count? Those that can do, those that can't..."expound." :rolleyes:
     
  8. Rob72

    Rob72 Loaded Pockets

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    BOT, Red, no one really offers a "significant improvement" on the Glock. The new Walther PPS is supposed to be a good little gun, and is significantly slimmer & lighter than most of the competitors...
     
  9. Cybrludite

    Cybrludite Empty Pockets

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    If it's a slim grip you're looking for, there's always the Kel-Tec PF-9. I'm quite fond of my P-32. It's been as reliable as a hammer for me.
     
  10. outdoorsman1911

    outdoorsman1911 Loaded Pockets

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    1. Have you ever tried to carry a 45acp or larger in dress clothes? pretty hard. also pretty hard to find a large caliber that can be concealed easy. when were talking CCW, were talking the ability to conceal, this isn't a night stand gun and smaller build guys need smaller guns, not because of recoil or anything like that, its the same as women, because we don't have much natural camouflage when it comes to removing a handgun shilloute.

    2. Yea, there are a lot of people walking around with 9's in em. I personally know 3 people that are walking around after being hit 1-5 times with 7.62x39. guess thats a girly round also. Our doctors in america have some of the best medical we can get, and we also have the largest privately owned arms collection in the world so they have plenty of expirence fixing GSW's. However what you should consider is that more people die in the world everyday of 3 calibers, 7.62/223 and.......22LR!

    3. Shot placement, Have you ever taken incoming rounds? because if you have not, here's what happens....you don't care about shot placement, you try and hit center mass and if you do thats just great, but more than likely your gonna just HOPE you hit center-mass. You're not going to count your rounds either, which is when you hope that you have a 9mm or around those lines, because anything bigger than your not going to have much more shots. No I don't care if you have a spare mag, because this isn't fallujah and your not going to have time to reload. one of you will be bleeding by the time its over and that will happen quick. otherwise the LEOs will be there to bail you out, in which case if you have to worry about anything else, you need to be worrying about why you can no longer justify lethal force.

    4. yes its good for punching paper and ammo is still cheap for it, that means people can practice with it. Which is more important then having a SB 500 Smith and Wesson you have to work a month to pay for 5 minutes of shooting.

    5. yes its good for limp wrists, but have you ever tried to shoot a large caliber in anything other than a perfect stance, like rolling on the ground and such?
     
  11. outdoorsman1911

    outdoorsman1911 Loaded Pockets

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    for small handguns on the subject of this thread:

    the NAA guardian series makes some really potent stuff in a small frame.

    kel tech also makes some good stuff too, lots of small autos. Although if you get one and have problems dont despair there are plenty of instructions out there on "fluff and Buffing" the keltech to make it more reliable.

    then theres the para ordinance warthog thats a little fatter and bigger.

    or the smaller glocks like is mentioned.
     
  12. sigmonster45

    sigmonster45 Banned

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    RedHorn. I don't know if you have found something that fits your hand in 9mm, I just sold a Taurus millennium pro2 9mm. it is poly.framed goes bang every time and made for small hands,has a life time warrent transferable.A 9mm dose the job with some Hydroshocks +p and good shot placement the bad guy wont know the difference with two in the chest and one in the head. I sold It because I have big hands.
     
  13. Red Horn

    Red Horn Loaded Pockets

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    My Gen I Glock 17 sale fell through. Was only gonna sell it because a good friends sister (big city PD) wanted it so I really don't need a 9 now.
    I have been seeing some nice ones developed/released of late. The Walthers, Tauri and now especially the shrunken 1911 in 9mm/.40 and
    XDm that Springfield offers really interests me. Gonna give it six moths to see how they fare before I commit to a new platform ;). I still may
    go with a Kahr. They have been around and proven to be excellent.
     
  14. sigmonster45

    sigmonster45 Banned

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    Most shooting ranges rent guns ,if you have access to one especially that has a gun shop try a few differant guns before you spend the money.
     
  15. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    How would you define modern?

    Is there a certain year cut off on the design? Most autoloaders today use the John Developed system so in that reguard most are very similar in how they cycle.
     
  16. Red Horn

    Red Horn Loaded Pockets

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    Loosely. I consider my gen I Glock (early 80's) and just about all that have been released since then to be modern. Especially ones of late that introduce new ideas :).
     
  17. Timbokhan

    Timbokhan Loaded Pockets

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    So, if nines are for girls, and if, as you suggest, nines aren't particularly useful, then we can assume that girls are basically screwed or at the very least are relegated to having to shoot insufficient guns for self-defense. Sorry, ladies!

    There are a number of problems with your statement. First, having been shot with a 9, I can verify that I lived. Thus, you are correct, at least to a point. What you leave out, however, is that there are plenty of people walking around alive, occasionally on the same night, that have been wounded with darn near every caliber that you can think of. Conversely, there are plenty of people pushing daisies on account of .22's, .25's and .32's.

    You make a point about shot placement and realistic expectations under stress, however you again seem to forget that missing with a .500 S&W (for example) is substantially worse in the long run than hitting with a .22. Having a bigger bullet means nothing if you can't hit with it. Do you need to be pin-point accurate? Of course not, but you do need to be able to hit, and if you can do so better under training conditions with a 9mm over something else, that is all that matters. Besides all that, you seem to forget that bullet choice can have dramatic effects on performance, even if you are a chick or are limp-wristed.

    On that topic, your limp wrist comment is needlessly offensive.

    Also, I might have missed it, but why hasn't anyone mentioned the slim-framed Glock? That is an improvement over the old model ergonomically...
     
  18. Dirty Bob

    Dirty Bob Loaded Pockets

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    Heck, there are plenty of professional trainers, bodyguards and combat vets who choose the 9mm, especially the Glock 19. If I was starting from zero and looking for one pistol, I'd probably go for a G19 and not look back.

    My tastes are for other pistols, but the G19 is an excellent compromise of size, weight, shootability, caliber, and price. Any pistol caliber is a compromise, too, but the 9mm is one of the better ones. It offers good stopping power with good ammo, along with lower-priced practice ammo, modest recoil, and more ammo in a given pistol than the larger calibers.

    Another thing to remember is that some of the "experts" touting large service pistols or magnum revolvers may actually be carrying .32 or .380ACP pocket pistols in actuality. I've had a number of people show me their carry gun, and it often turns out to be a Kel-Tec P3AT or P-32, or a Beretta Tomcat, or the like.

    I personally carry a Kel-Tec P-11, with a spare mag and a small, fixed blade knife. It's the biggest pistol that's invisible on me, no matter what my attire, from jeans and t-shirt for a run to Walmart, to a suit and tie for the opera.

    Best wishes,
    Dirty Bob
     
  19. JonSidneyB
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    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared
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    Thanks Timbokhan for remembering the ladies.

    We can have disagreement on calibers and still be civil about it.

    Lets also not make any blanket women statements guys. Women are people too and are every bit as deserving as Men..
     
  20. Dirty Bob

    Dirty Bob Loaded Pockets

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    JonSidneyB wrote:
    Absolutely! I'm glad Jon said it so well. We can give advice and suggestions, but there's nothing to be gained by alienating someone for their choices. No handgun is the perfect choice for all. All handguns are a compromise in weight, power, accuracy, size and capacity.

    It's not the caliber or the tool that matters most, but the will and skill of the person using it. In The Concealed Handgun Manual, Chris Bird writes of a guy who successfully defended himself with a cheap-o .32 ACP, while in his later book, Thank God I Had a Gun, we read about a woman in Ft. Worth who defeated several assailants with a Winchester 12ga. loaded with buckshot!

    In my Navy OCS class at Newport, RI in 1985, one of the top shooters in the company with the .45 was a petite woman who had never fired a gun before! She was not handicapped by the arrogance that a lot of us guys have when it comes to guns. We seem to think that watching a lot of action movies gives us a natural ability, especially with handguns. As a Navy SEAL said to our NRA Instructor class in 1984, "Men think they're naturally good with guns because their plumbing's on the outside."

    Another woman of note, Suzanna Gratia Hupp, is the one person who's most responsible for Texas having concealed carry. If she'd had her pistol with her in the Killeen, TX Luby's, I have confidence that the scumbag who drove his truck into the restaurant would have had his murder spree cut short.

    The selection of tools and calibers is highly personal, and the only person who has to live with the choice is the owner. Personally, I find that there are plenty of small, light handguns available in fairly effective calibers, like .38 Special or 9mm, so that I won't choose anything smaller for regular carry, but that's what works for me. YMMV.

    Thanks to all,
    Dirty Bob