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Kubotan on Trial in the UK

Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by PocketWad, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. oldsarge

    oldsarge Loaded Pockets

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    I am a born and bred American. Every morning when I leave the house, I put on my pants, my belt, my holster, my .40 cal springfield, my 3 1/2" pocket knife, an extra magazine and a small flashlight.

    I have done so for almost 40 years. I am retired from active service for 10 years. I will continue to do so until I am too feeble minded or old, and then my son and grandsons can have them.

    I have never been in a fight off duty, never killed any one off duty. never threatened anyone off duty, never been spotted by any one off duty.

    I don't carry a weapon for a general sense of unease or threat. I don't do because of a specific threat. I do it because it is my god given right to do it, confirmed by two Supreme Court decisions.

    Quibbling with the authorities over a pen knife, or a lock on a knife, or a bit of plastic in my pocket seems insane to me.

    I am the person that Governments fear. I am the person that George Soros, the U.N. the Brady campaign et. al. fear. I am a free American and I will not be a subject to any Crown or Idealogy.

    Every time I read through a thread like this it convinces me to fight harder to preserve my rights and freedoms.

    I feel confusion and sorrow for those who are forced by an accident of birth to be serfs. I wish you the best and hope for your liberation from tyranny some day.
     
  2. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Well said.
     
  3. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

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    How is anyone forced to do that? They choose to live as serfs, they could just up sticks and move to somewhere where the liberation from tyranny has already happened. ;-)
     
  4. Straya

    Straya Loaded Pockets

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  5. 50ft-trad

    50ft-trad Loaded Pockets

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    LOL - Well yeah if you consider it tyranny thats probably best option.

    As for me I've always felt I can carry what I need (including locking & fixed blades), but if ever the underlying common sense was imposed upon and I couldn't carry what I need - I might be tempted to reconsider.

    Then again if I lived elsewhere I might feel I need to carry more than I need to in this country ...
     
  6. boomstick

    boomstick Loaded Pockets

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  7. Hoshnasi

    Hoshnasi Empty Pockets

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    If I lived in the UK and I wanted to give someone hell all I would need to do is plant an "illegal" and "dangerous" knife somewhere in their car and then make a report "He said he was going to hurt someone with an illegal knife type weapon... He also had crazy eyes."
     
  8. Stutoffee

    Stutoffee Loaded Pockets

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    Many of our so-called British "newspapers" (The Daily Mail is FAR from a "newspaper"!) perpetuate the anti-knife, nanny state hysteria, but lets not forget that the UK laws on carrying knives are NOT markedly different from many other countries, both in Europe AND further afield( &, for that matter, some US States!!).

    These sort of threads ALWAYS concentrate on the UK, (perhaps because we share a common language?) but I know that the laws on carrying knives in Spain, for example, are equally strict, if not stricter.

    There ARE some crazy laws in various countries, but look at some of the laws in some US States. For instance, it being illegal to carry prescription medicines in containers other than their original containers, schools not being able to teach the Theory of Evolution etc.

    and I'M most definitely NOT a "serf".
     
  9. Hoshnasi

    Hoshnasi Empty Pockets

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    We concentrate on the UK because it seems many of the people that live there -and post here- end up defending the law in post like these. Which causes the posts to run on past nine pages of dicussion on personal freedoms.

    Keep in mind, that for many states in the US. that have knife laws maindating a certain blade length, there are very few stipulations on the blade lock-up, which is still one of my major gripes with the UK law.
     
  10. Essexman

    Essexman Loaded Pockets

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    That's something I've never really thought about before, so in the US the knife laws are not all the same for one state to another. I'd find that really hard, say if you were going on holiday, but I guess you chaps are used to it and work with it.

    Say for example I was coming over to the US for a break/holiday, how do you go about looking up the knife law for each state?
     
  11. jag-engr
    • Administrator

    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    On the internet, such as this site put together by Bernard Levine.
     
  12. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Generally speaking, even state to state, you are not legally required to have a good reason for carrying a knife. Knives are generally recognized as tools. You might get the occassional silly comment from a hoplophobe who has spent his entire life in the big city, but knives are generally recognized as the tools they are. You carry it because it comes in handy, as a tool.

    Some of our laws may seem silly, and they are. For example, it is illegal to pump your own gas in NJ. And service station attendants do indeed get angry if you're from NY, and you reach for the pump. Why is it illegal? Some idiot actually set himself on fire once, while pumpimg his own gas. So because of that one idiot, those in power in NJ decided everyone must be protected from themselves.

    However, some laws make sense . . . once you think about it. Let's say a police officer pulls over a vehicle. Inside he finds a plastic bag with about 30 tablets of Vicodin. The driver is a young, healthy-looking individual. When questioned, the driver says he has a prescription. Here's where the problem comes in, the driver can't prove his claim. The officer is now holding a bag containing a very potent narcotic. Not all drug dealers deal in weed or cocaine. Do you know what the street value is for 30 tabs of Vicodin?

    By making it a requirement that prescription drugs be kept in their bottles, you avoid the type of problem highlighted above.

    Schools have been teaching the Theory of Evolution for decades now, here in America.
     
  13. 50ft-trad

    50ft-trad Loaded Pockets

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    There's only a need to justify certain types of knife, the sub 3" slippie is the recognised pocket tool here. I think as Hoshnasi pointed out it's probably the lock restrictions that most people (who are used to other laws) find the hardest to get their head around. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the lock, and would rather use a fixed blade. I tend to find a lock inconvenient, and instils false sense of security against blade closure ... but that's just me.

    The Vicodin analogy would raise questions here too, and though not illegal in and of itself a baggie of pills is going to raise questions (and actions), and in theory could see an arrest take place if the officer suspects the guys story is not true, until it has been verified.

    We've had our fair share of weird laws here too. There was one which stated it was illegal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow within Chester's town centre before midnight! (Not after) I think on the whole our knife laws are fairly well balanced - if you are specifically takling about knives as tools. Personal opinion and I know others vary dramatically.

    Out of interest - in the more restrictive US states, does the "good reason" flexibility apply there if carrying a restricted knife? We tend to hear mention about the base rules on the forum, but not what happens outside the defined acceptability.

    Cheers
     
  14. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Usually, specific types of knives have laws banning them. Often gravity or automatic knives, as well as balisongs. No such thing as the "good reason" clause.

    But the problem with that is that it is the officer you encounter who decides whether or not your good reason is good enough. Years ago, there was a newspaper vendor who used a couple of cheap folding knives on a daily basis to cut the twine off of newspaper bundles. One day, an officer noticed he was using two knives. When asked to supply a good reason why he had two knives on him, the vendor responded that the knives were inexpensive and that the blade on one would always dull before he had finished his work. He sharpened them both overnight, then would use both the next day until both became dull. Usually just after finishing cutting apart the bundles.

    Sound like a good reason to you? It does to me. (Even though I think the vendor should have bought one decent knife that could get the job done.)

    Well, it wasn't good enough for the officer who decided to run him in.
     
  15. 50ft-trad

    50ft-trad Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah the auto's, gravity and balisongs are all totally blacklisted here too, along with hidden/stealth knives, OTF's and a few others. None of those are considered tools - the old "you can defend yourself but not carry a weapon" situation. Beyond that, yes we too are subject to the interpretation of the officer. I've walked passed a courthouse with a fixed blade on my hip a few times and not had any questions, but then again I was taking a narrowboat through a lock on the canal. Had I have nipped over the bridge to the shop to buy a can of coke with it still on my hip before going further down the canal, there would have been uproar and I'd have probably had a nice pair of adjustable bracelets to try on. Whilst I'm supervising a boat crew it's safety equipment, but moor up and go shopping it's an offensive weapon.

    Even though I'm a reasonable communicator face to face, and portray myself as a sensible and responsible guy. It is always in the back of my mind when carrying something other than a sub 3" slippie (I don't tend to go much above a 4" fixed blade anyway) that if I did get questionned - what sort of copper would I get? LEO's are all people and therefore all have their own unique interpretations on situations. Some will agree with you or give you the benefit of the doubt, the others will let a court decide.

    That vendor situation seems pretty harsh, but then again the next cop might have said good thinking ... or even (like you said) why don't you just buy a better one?
     
  16. Ryder

    Ryder Empty Pockets

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    It boils down to the UK being under the dominion of a monarch via a proxy (Parliement).
    The Queen and her buddies don't want their subjects to have the means to protect themselves.
    They'd rather justify the over-blown police FORCE with over-powered weapons that take then ages to get to a spree killing area by which time it's all over.
    Arming the citizens is common sense to us. But the ptb and brainwashed masses want to have big policing in Britain to justify their own existance.

    The red-ink sprays are about all you can carry on you in grate britain.
     
  17. 50ft-trad

    50ft-trad Loaded Pockets

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    Thank you for your words of wisdom. I'm sure all the UK members really appreciate the time you took to compose such a well thought out and balanced contribution to the thread.

    Had you taken a little more time however, you would have found several posts in several threads which explain how defensive actions are applauded, but weapons are restricted to avoid offensive actions and overzealous responses to assumed threats. Just how often do you think our overblown police force with over powered weapons fails to be punctual at "spree killing areas"?

    ... and it's Great Britain
     
  18. phill

    phill Loaded Pockets

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    In America you are free to:

    Practice your religion whenever you want however you want if you dont harm someone else, unless you are Muslim and then you will be protested for trying to build a Mosque thousands of miles away from ground zero in Florida.
    Have a GPS device attached to your car by police with no warrant according to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.
    If you are gay you are legally allowed to marry someone of the opposite sex in all 50 states.
    Serve your country fighting its enemies provided you are straight or willing to pretend to be.
    Drink as much alcohol as possible, except for certain days when sales are restricted, despite the huge health risks and deaths associated with it. The considerably safer cannabis is illegal for recreational use.
    You are allowed to carry an ice cream in your back pocket in Georgia on every day except Sunday.
    Gitmo is still open.
    The President signed off on assassinating American citizens abroad.
    The last President signed off on waterboarding which was defined and condemned as torture by America when Americans were waterboarded in Korea.
    For decades the Republicans have talked about small government. You really really hope they were telling the truth this time when you elected them to control of the House earlier this month.
    You are free to learn the truth about what is happening in the world if you avoid what the media is saying. The latest series of lies about the president's trip to India is a great example of such lies.
    You have the freedom to be in trillions of dollars of debt and you are free to ignore the majority of the cost is social security and defence and concentrate on welfare spending that is a tiny slice of the pie.

    And so on and so forth.

    Britain aint great, but America isnt close to perfect either. Glass houses and stones.
     
  19. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Phill . . . successful trolling is done by appearing to seem reasonable. It usually works on most folks. (Just ask straya.)

    Then again, you tend to swing for their heads using a big stick. I see nothing has changed since the last time I encountered your posts.
     
  20. phill

    phill Loaded Pockets

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    Trolling doesnt mean what you think it does. Me pointing out truths is not trolling. Sorry if facts offend you.

    It is interesting you made no mention of the troll referring to us Brits as serfs. Anyway, land of the free stopped meaning anything at the 18th Amendment, arguably the day the Republic was formed, and its slid to less free since.

    You talk about tokens of freedom, something you were attacked for by terrorists, but you are giving away that freedom all the time. Your government took away so many rights with the PATRIOT act and some of its biggest supporters are the same people who support the second amendment as a brake to stop the government from passing legislation like the PATRIOT act itself. If it wasnt so serious it would be funny.