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Knife edge???

Discussion in 'Knives' started by Ralph B, Aug 13, 2012.

  1. Ralph B

    Ralph B Loaded Pockets

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    I need some help understanding the different knife edges available, their purposes and the best way / system to keep a nice sharp edge on our tool. I just recently purchased a DPX HEST Original knife and put it through some paces this past weekend. First, the HEST was not as sharp as I would have liked it righout the box. Second I always have used a ceramic stone to clean up the edges on other knives I have and it has worked fine. What I have noticed is that the edge on the HEST is a very sharp angle compared to my Spyderco pro grip, Victorinox outdoorsman and Laguiole pocket knife, that these edges are nicely tapered and with a few passes on the ceramic stone we can preform surgery.
     
  2. jcc

    jcc Banned

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    Can you put that in the form of a question, please? Thanks!
     
  3. Ralph B

    Ralph B Loaded Pockets

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    Wow 85 reviews and the only post referenced my lack of punctuation.
     
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  4. jcc

    jcc Banned

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    No one knows what to say because no one knows what you're looking to learn. I'd like to help you out, I really do, but I have no idea what you're looking for.
     
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  5. dyril

    dyril Loaded Pockets

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    He's saying he wants to reprofile the bevel (probably in the direction of thinning it / making the angle more acute)
     
  6. Valerian

    Valerian Tea-powered admin

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    Well, it is kind of hard to understand from your post what you want us to help you with. With "different knife edges", do you mean plain/serrated kind of thing or the grind type, convex, chisel, symmetrical etc.?
     
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  7. Brisket

    Brisket Loaded Pockets

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    Grind/edge preferences are very personal thing and the best ones for me may not be the best ones for you and there is no single solution given the wide variety of knife uses. Forums like bladeforums and knifeforums have subforums on sharpening/maintenance where grinds and sharpening methods are explained and debated. You can research this topic to death and still not know what works for you and your needs until you experience different ones yourself. Edges and grinds can be confusing particularly when you factor in primary and secondary grinds. Some of my favorite EDC knives have a full flat primary grind with a convex secondary. This is one of the better explanations of primary and secondary grinds that I have found but it is in no way complete: http://backyardbushman.com/?page_id=13

    A couple of books that address this issue that I can recommend are Leonard Lee's The Complete Guide to Sharpening, Chad Ward's An Edge in The Kitchen and Murray Carter's Bladesmithing. Murray Carter's sharpening DVD's and Ray Mears waterstone sharpening section on his bushcraft DVD's are excellent and some of their techniques on video are free online.

    As far as the best system for sharpening goes, it depends on what result you want to achieve. If you like a convex edge, a belt grinder/sander, wet/dry sandpaper and strops are good for that. If you want a hollow/concave edge then paper wheels are good for that. If you want a V grind then there are all kinds of systems that are proven to work well like freehanding waterstones, ceramic stones & diamond stones, or guided systems like the Lansky, DMT, Spyderco Sharpmaker, Edge Pro, Wicked Edge, etc.

    I find convex, V and scandi edges to be the most useful and practical overall for my various needs so I tend to use a belt sander, stones (water & ceramic mostly) and leather strops more than my other sharpening systems but I still keep and use my paper wheels and some guided systems. I EDC a Fallkniven DC3 (diamond on one side and ceramic on the other) and a small loaded leather strop of the same size to maintain my edges.
     
    Last edited by Brisket, Aug 14, 2012
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  8. jcc

    jcc Banned

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    Thanks for the shout out, Brisket. Here are some of our YouTube sharpening videos that may help the OP:



    Sharpening a Convex Edge



    Getting a Knife Scary Sharp
     
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  9. mrlysle

    mrlysle Loaded Pockets

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    Different manufacturers choose different blade sharpening angles, depending on the steel they use, it's hardness, (or heat treatment), it's thickness, length, target user, etc, etc. That's why you can pick up one model and see what seems to be a pretty steep (obtuse) angle, and a different knife has a shallower (acute) angle, and sometimes you wonder why. All steels can't hold a good edge if sharpened too "shallow", or sharpened to an acute angle. The steel can be fragile, or brittle, and needs a little extra steel right behind the edge to help keep it from chipping, or breaking, or just "rolling over". It's a very complicated science, with lots of variables, and sometimes manufacturers just have to guess at the intended use of their knife, and how to sharpen it at the factory. Some knives can be left as is, as far as angle goes, and just touched up, or honed, keeping the same angle, and work fine. Sometimes you can "reprofile" a factory edge, to a more obtuse, or more acute angle, and get better longetivity, or edge retention for what you use the knife for. As far as sharpening, you're gonna get as many different answers as there are responders probably. My 2 cents? You can get great results with any system you want, after you learn how to use it, and practice with it. However, some systems are better suited to the heavy work, such as the previously mentioned "reprofiling", doing it faster, and with more angle "accuracy" than other systems do. Some folks are very adept at "freehand" sharpening, and get marvelous results with a selection of bench stones and strops. I personally use a Lansky system, and like it very much for MY knives, and MY use. Someday I would like to get one of the "more capable" systems, like the Apex, or Wicked Edge. These "high end" systems can accommodate longer blade lengths than my little Lansky, and with a good assortment of stones and strops, can take a dull nasty blade, reprofile it, and take it to "hair whittling" sharp, in a relatively short period of time. If you just need to "touch up" an edge once in awhile, the Spyderco Sharpmaker is a really nice system. Look at some reviews of the different systems, decide if you're a "sharpaholic" or not, and get the system that has the features and price you want. If you get one and don't like it, I'm sure you could sell it pretty easy, and try a different one. Good luck in your research, and Welcome to the forums! :)
     
  10. Brisket

    Brisket Loaded Pockets

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    mrlysle makes some strong points. Blade geometry and steel characteristics are major factors in the whole equation.
     
  11. jcc

    jcc Banned

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    You're right about blade geometry. Often most knives are too thick and need to be thinned out in order to cut more efficiently (those big 1/8" knives simply can't cut as effectively as a thinned out blade). Murray often says that if he had two minutes to make a knife sharper he would thin out the secondary edge (the grind behind the primary edge) and not even address the primary edge.
     
  12. Ralph B

    Ralph B Loaded Pockets

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    Well, I have to say thanks for all the replies, trying to school me on knife edges 101. Some of the videos have helped, along with hours of surfing the web. I am going to invest in the Spyderco Sharpmaker system, it looks the most idiot proof and the most recomended on the EDC Forums.
     
  13. mrlysle

    mrlysle Loaded Pockets

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    Good for you! Good luck with your Sharpmaker. I think you'll really like it! :D