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Discussion in 'Knives' started by Jean, Oct 2, 2010.
looking good, did you see the flashlight....? http://www.iainsinclair.com/products.php?page=1
I did miss the light, now I want it, I would like a chance to play with one of them first.
I fail to see the appeal of that flashlight?
It looks like it uses two LEDs, a proprietary battery pack, and it looks like it lacks any convenient form of activation, not to mention optics... i just imagine a big symmetric white blob of light coming out of it -- no mention of runtime, adjustable brightness, etc.
the engineer in me appreciates the design of the product line but the EDCer thinks these are more of a fashion statement and less of actual tools
they keep pushing design this and design that, but not much about actual performance..
au contraire! i believe they give a rather precise and detailed description of this lights capabilities:
The World’s most innovative Flashlight:
Eon Extreme® has the highest power to weight ratio of any flashlight torch in the World and can outperform much larger and bulky rivals.
With around 230 lumens of pocket flood light from only 43 grams, the credit card sized flashlight utilizes the very latest technology, including twin hyperbright power chip LEDs with dual wide angle flood lens.
Power is provided by a built-in high energy Lithium Polymer rechargeable battery, making expensive and non-ecological battery replacement obsolete
(3 billion batteries are purchased annually in the US alone and most of these eventually get thrown away).
A variable electronic dimmer ensures the exact amount of light can be controlled by touch (accidental illumination can be avoided as two pushes are required to activate low light mode and three pushes required to activate hyperbright mode). Continuous power on time in low light mode is approximately one day or one hour in hyperbright mode.
A built-in micro USB connector accepts industry standard mobile phone power supply (e.g Blackberry® etc) or a supplied lanyard cord accessory allows convenient operation and also doubles as a micro USB recharge cable (for easy connection to PC etc).
Supertough construction is manufactured by robot from a solid block of aluminum. High end build quality includes satin black anodized finish.
for me the appeal lies in its especially unique size and shape, and the frosting on that cake is the promise of 230 lumens. this is something that i find quite exciting. YMMV
Link here: http://www.iainsinclair.com/extreme_info.html
I think Carrot would be the person to answer the Lumens dilema, if I recall correctly different companies measure the lumens differently
Thanks for the info…
But yea, if you're mainly concerned about lumen output -- keep in mind that the beam characteristics are most likely going to be pure flood, given that there are two emitters and no reflector. This would give you 230 lumens (probably rated at the the emitter, or 2x times the emitter LED lumens.. doubt they're OTF or ANSI rated) in an uncontrolled blob that may appear dimmer than a traditional spot and spill type of beam profile.
however it seems they are advertising it as a floodlight so if that's what you're looking for then go for it. i personally like flashlights in the shape they are though something like this seems awkward to hold, awkward to activate and awkward to carry. it doesnt look like it'd fit in a wallet comfortably, doesn't look like it would do well loose in pocket, no pocket clip, no lanyard..
but for what it is, it is interesting at least
There is one on ebay at the moment but the starting price is 99usd
The proper way to measure lumens is via an integrating sphere. Just because an integrating sphere is used does not always prove anything. If you can move from one sphere to another and get different results which has happened the numbers become less meaningful. A proper integrating sphere in theory should fully compensate for the "times square" factor but they actually don't. I don't worry too much about that as they come so close in my opinion to being insignificant, we are talking fraction of a percent here.
One can also get results that do not match the real world do to things being omitted from the light. If I where to remove the window, optics, and so on from the light I will get higher numbers.
Sometimes a numbers race creates problems that do not relate well to the real world. Lets say a group of efficiency nuts like the guys that are underground for a month at a time. Lets say one window allows 98% of the light to pass though but the first time these guys rub their glove across it with the grit from the crawl way the almost invisible micro scratches can knock that down to the 70's while if they where using Sapphire or Alon they would start out with something a little less clear in actual use they will be getting more light out the front end due to less micro damage in real use.
On some of the other comments. The reason I saw window instead of lens is technically people have kind of changed the original language. A windows intent is not not change the direction of the photon stream. Windows do in fact alter the photon stream. At the point source of light the photons that land perpendicular to the window are less affected in direction, as you move away from perpendicular the change is greater. Assuming the density of the window material is consistent this is not that important as the direction is changed twice upon entry of the material and exit that off set each other. There is always light lost as you pass through a window, it cannot be avoided but the % can vary widely. While it does not have significant on this aspect of lights we do use the point source of light in order to do some calculations in designing a beam but we are using a semi bogus assumption. Some would say it is a half truth but I things it is closer to being a seven eights truth. The point source of light suggests a source of light as a singularity but it is not, the truth is it is usually not that important in most applications.
Now optics is actually a lens, it is meant to alter the path of the light. It is also an Ineffeciency. Optics do reduce the output of a light. These facts make it easy for someone to inflate the numbers of the actual lumen count out the front end without lying. All we have to do is measure total lumens produced rather than what makes it out the front end.
Lumens can be calculated mathematically and come up with a fairly close number. You deal with the input current, circuit efficiencies, the average yield for the emitter the loss at the reflector, the loss at the optic, or window, the loss from things such as a lip on the light. Of course when doing the math something can be forgotten. We can also get a bad result in assuming a straight line rather than actually creating a proper curve.
It is very easy to have lumen results that have no meaning. Now when we are talking about 230 lumens vs 200 vs 250. On either side of 230 is really not that much. When I was working with gamma correction it was horribly difficult for any of our eyes to see much difference.
I like the fact it is a flood. The only times throw has been a benefit to me has been seeing what animals are in the field, planning a route to take or trying to find detail at distance while in a cave, checking the conditions of the bottom of a decent was also helpful. Outside of this I have generally been served better by a medium or floody beam.
While for most things I prefer the traditinal light shape I like this for several reasons. Starting with the clip, I would not want a clip on this at all. I both love and hate clips at the same time. Some knives and lights I apprecite the clip, on ones that I don't intend to use the clip make me curse and I want to tear them off (I need to do a thread that I would probably never finish about the time I hate clips and the times I love clips). I like the fast it will smooth out the bulges in a pocket rather than create a lump for those dressy occations. It looks like it could fit nicely in a shirt pocket. A small cylinder in the pocket likes to lie down. Even if thes goes where it is wide edge down it looks easier to dig out of a pocket than a cylinder. I really really like the looks of this item so far.
in the words of forrest gump, "i'm not a smart man." moot point as far as the lumens are concerned. the deductive reasoning as to how and why lumens are rated goes way over my head. i am drawn to this light precisely because of its shape. if it happens to be an especially bright light, that would be a bonus.
as jon has so eloquently articulated, far better than i ever could, the credit card configuration of this little gem would be ideal for those dressier occasions, fitting neatly and inconspicuously inside of a sport coat or jacket pocket. true, it might not fit so well inside of a wallet. but neither does a fenix.
keep us posted on your efforts to obtain these products, jon. a fleet discount on a quantity might at least save us some coin on the shipping charges. with the price indicated in british pounds i'm presuming that these would be coming from the UK?
exciting products, from my perspective!
thanks for the jarring reminder of the "box-cutter" reality we now live in. the times have indeed changed, and not necessarily for the better. the innocent pocket knife of my youth is now considered a concealed weapon. i had mentioned in another thread of my daily visits to a veteran's facility. each day when i enter that building an armed security guard searches my pack. each day i have to present my VA identification card to the very same guard, and each day that very same guard in turn searches my pack. i mean, holy taco, batman! i thought that i was one of the good guys! oh, well! it's the world i now live in.
thanks for bringing up a very valid point.
Years ago, there was a little-known novel about a restaurant manager who worked in Ireland. The place often had very wealthy and famous individuals stopping by for a meal. All cars got searched, and had to wait on line. All except the manager's. His always got waved through. A terrorist group noticed this, and took his family hostage. Then they forced him to drive his car into the parking area with a bomb hidden in it in order to kill a British figure. They took advantage of the fact that all of the security guards knew the manager and waved him through.
Not saying that's the logic behind what you had to go through. It's just procedure.
Some of us do not go into any secured areas or any areas at all where this knife would be a problem. For those going into a secured area this could be a problem.
I would never see this knife as a weapon.
Bump for a thread.
Similar topics merged. ;D
Back in the late 1980's Tekna used to produce two (red) LED lights. One had a credit card form factor made of black nylon or FRN with a red momentary switch near the end of one of the long edges. The power was supplied by a button cell type battery in a slide out battery tray/compartment.
The other light was a small barrel shaped light with a spring loaded twist switch. At 90 and 270 degrees, the light would turn on, at 0 and 180 degrees the light would turn off. It had a nylon bezel and the body was made of titanium. It came on a small asymmetrically oval key ring with a screw barrel closure.
Once you get past the arguments about lumens, throw and beam patterns, the long and the short of it was that the lights were ahead of their time in a lot of ways. While it would be easy to disparage/dismiss them in light of what is currently out there, the form factor is incredibly useful (especially the credit card size) in dressier situations and as backup lights. I owned both of these lights and I would love to see updated versions of them. So much so, that I just sent them an email, asking that very question.
Tekna is still around, the company named has changed to TekTite, but they still retain Tekna brand name. Most of their current lights are probably comparable to Princeton Outdoor/Camping LED lights, although they also have some dive lights. Back then they were also known from their skeletonized stainless steel dive dagger (which they have brought back as the Ocean Edge), a credit card knife which had a nylon body and retractable blade named the Security Card.
Strangely they also sell a light which looks remarkably like the McGizmo Sapphire 25. I am wondering if Don is distributing lights through them.
TekTite/Tekna's website can be found here: http://www.tek-tite.com They still have some very interesting stuff.
I'm looking forward to this design, but I would like to play with one before buying.
Oh Gribble... got a response back from Tektite.... why is it always 10K? :brickwall: (Yes.... that's a rhetorical question... I understand the need to recoup tooling costs).
With regard to demand.... methinks he is not fully aware of the EDC community. Must mull this over. Grumble, grumble, grumble. I expect for the folks that don't want to fork over $80 for an EON, something with a lower buy-in and replaceable batteries, but not a buck-a-throw(away) cheap would have a market.