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How to secure my handgun in case I'm in an accident?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by amacman, May 14, 2012.

  1. amacman
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    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    This is something that has been in my mind a bit lately. How would I(or someone) secure my handgun if I was in an auto(or other) accident?

    If my wife is with me (and uninjured) or can get there quickly, she also has a CCW and can take possession of my weapon-even though I'm still nervous because its a 1911 and she has issues with clearing it. My primary car has a nano vault bolted to the rear floor under the floor mat, and if I was able I could secure it there.

    But what if I'm being transported to the hospital and the car is being towed off?

    What if my wife is with me(and armed) and we're both being transported?

    EMTs and LEOs, what are you supposed to do if I'm armed and unable to secure my own weapon?
     
  2. paaiyan

    paaiyan Loaded Pockets

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    I'm lead to believe that most EMT's will let an officer disarm you of it when discovered, unless they're familiar with firearms themselves. The police will store the weapon somewhere you can later retrieve it from.
     
  3. amacman
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    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    So, does that mean the EMT will continue treatment of me while waiting for a LEO to arrive? Of course, I've had a tense moment before watching an officer trying to clear my 1911.
     
  4. neutrontech
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    neutrontech Loaded Pockets

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    I'm sure they would. I couldn't imagine an EMT not working on an injured person because they saw a gun on him. Sounds like a lawsuit if the injured party were to die from not being treated. "he had a gun your honor" :rolleyes:
     
  5. Ktowngunner
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    They will continue to treat you unless you're threatening them with it. So if you're disoriented and start waving it around they'll hang back, otherwise it's all good. When an officer shows up he will secure the weapon and you can retrieve it once you're done with the ordeal.
     
  6. yukon2004

    yukon2004 Loaded Pockets

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    I believe Ktowngunner is correct. Especially if you're unconscious, EMT's are not going to be worried that you have a gun, they'll just move it out of the way if need be, and an LEO will secure it upon arrival.
     
  7. D50boy

    D50boy Loaded Pockets

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    I dunno what would happen. A friend of mine was in an accident years back which knocked him out. He woke up in the hospital relieved of his Spyderco Civilian. Nobody had any idea what happened to it.
     
  8. NCMedic

    NCMedic Loaded Pockets

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    You are correct,
    The most likely solution is that law enforcement would take possession of the weapon to secure it and you can retrieve it later.

    In the case of a vehicle accident where the vehicle was being towed from the scene, law enforcement is generally on the scene and can take possession of it before you are transported. If it were a situation where you had a medical emergency and were conscious before the ambulance arrived, I'd recommend securing the firearm in the Nanovault and then locking up the car, same as if you were at home, lock it up beforehand and it's a non issue. If I were to encounter a firearm during a transport, I would simply lock it up in our narcotics vault, most ambulances will have a safe or locked cabinet for securing narcotics or a locked drug box, that's the safest place for it to be in the ambulance and then coordinate with law enforcement or hospital security to secure the firearm until you were discharged from the hospital.
    I don't know alot of EMS agencies that have specific protocols or procedures regarding concealed weapons, however as concealed carry becomes more and more a regular thing, EMS agencies will have to have procedures to deal with them and make providers aware, tell biggest issue is in a emergency I don't know if you are carrying legally or a gang banger with a tummy ache trying to get into the hospital past security to settle a score, so legal or not, the best practice for EMS dealing with a weapon they encounter is to turn it over to law enforcement. I can't guarantee that you will have a EMS provider who is familiar with firearms, but I can generally say that unless you are brandishing it or waving it around menacingly that there is no reason for care to not be rendered to you, if you are conscious, I'd inform the providers when they show up that you are legally armed and you need to secure your firearm before you goto the hospital.

    Sent from this... Using that...
     
    Black Helmet and Ktowngunner like this.
  9. neutrontech
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    neutrontech Loaded Pockets

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    :mad: I hate thieves !!!!!
     
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  10. D50boy

    D50boy Loaded Pockets

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    I know :/ It was a beautiful first run model too.
     
  11. Ktowngunner
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    Ktowngunner Loaded Pockets

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    Sadly it isn't the first or last time a nice piece of gear will disappear at a crash site. :mad:There are dirtbag theives in EVERY profession, and that includes the "good guys" like firefighters, police, and EMT's.
     
  12. amacman
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    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    My concern is both one of the security of my firearm, and the safety of others. I carry a cocked and locked 1911 in a strong side holster. If I am injured/disabled, is someone going to remove the weapon from the holster AND properly and safely clear it? Is it going to be dropped as-is into the narcotics vault of the ambulance? Is there a chance if I'm unconscious that the gun may be overlooked, and end up still on me in the ER?

    I have had a tense moment before when law enforcement disarmed me. I watched a young officer fumble around with my gun trying to figure out how to clear it. He finally agreed to secure it as-is in the trunk of my car. I'm as much afraid as someone having an unintentional discharge of my gun as I am of losing it.
     
  13. NCMedic

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    I can't give you a answer as to what would happen where you are, depends on a lot of external factors, if it were me, and what I have instructed others to do is to remove the holster and gun intact as one unit and secure it until it can be given to law enforcement, the same as if you were dealing with a LEO who is injured, take off their duty belt and everything comes with it.
    I have been privy to the unfortunate incident when you move a patient over at the hospital and a gun falls to the floor, it can happen. However with a good physical assessment most of the places where a weapon could be concealed would be checked for one reason or another.

    You can't ensure that every law enforcement officers you encounter is going to be a "gun person". Some of the worst weapons handling I have seen has been with law enforcement.
    Sent from this... Using that...
     
  14. Firepoint

    Firepoint Loaded Pockets

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    Even the dumbest people on the planet know that firearms can be dangerous. Why are you so worried, and what is it you are really worried about?

    Theft of your firearm? Be prepared for it, it might happen.

    Accidental discharge by an officer or emt? I seriously doubt that will happen. Even when clearing you gun, they will be smart enough not to point it anywhere dangerous. If not, how is that your fault or responsibility?

    Fear your wife can't clear a 1911 safely? Get her some training to get over it. If she has a CCW, dealing with a 1911 is not any more serious than any other semi auto. You shouldn't have your finger on the trigger during the task no matter the gun.

    Fear you will be charged for events that happen while you are unconscious during an accident? That isn't really in your control anyway. Sell your guns and buy some safety scissors if this is your worry.
     
  15. ViennaGambit

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    I live in AZ which is a very big carry state - EMTs around here are known to carry a lock box in their ambulances and will lock the gun up and then pass it off to an officer at the hospital.
     
  16. amacman
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    Even the dumbest people know a firearm can be dangerous. I guess its only the smart people that people that have accidental discharges? Have you ever been to a public shooting range and actually watched the handling practices of some of the people around you?

    Theft-not so much. Accidental discharge of my 1911 in a non safe direction by a LEO-I sure am. I watched a LEO cover me and several other with the muzzle of my Kimber while trying to figure out how to clear it after disarming me. Also, if I'm in an accident, I'm concerned about the condition my gun may be in when found. Has it been damaged? Is the safety still on?

    Training for my wife? Not the issue, she is very well trained. However, she has some grip strength issues that make racking the slide on any auto an issue. She carries a revolver for this reason.
     
  17. Firepoint

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    I agree, I've seen lots of people with poor firearm skills. I wasn't commenting on anyone's level of intelligence. Many people that lack safe handling skills are inexperienced and fearful of guns. They won't likely want to deal with yours. You can't avoid these people no matter how har

    If you can secure your firearm yourself, that would be my first recommendation. If its not possible, I'd hope someone well trained like your wife was there to do it, or properly instruct someone with the physical ability to do it.

    I would not worry about hospital's, doctors, or ER staff dealing with your pistol. It should be quickly found in their first assessment of you as they search for injuries. Its not likely going to fall out on the floor of the OR and shoot out someones eye. If it gets that far without being found, id be seriously worried about the level of care you are receiving. They don't want anything to do with it and will likely get an LEO to deal with it.

    Most LEO's training is on the thosands of other duties they perform and they are seldom firearms experts. I've even seen some that can't work a stapler, and should not have a gun. If you are worried about an LEO's ability to clear your pistol, eliminate the risk. You could choose not to carry,store in a lock box every time you drive, carry a revolver or DA pistol, don't carry your 1911 in condition one. The security of your pistol is your responsibility. Good luck however you choose to manage your risk.
     
  18. dowtech

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    Many years ago, I served three years as a volunteer EMT with an ambulance squad in east coastal Florida. This was not long after "shall issue" came into effect, and, in fact, I had my CCW. I never ran an accident call where there was a firearm involved (that I knew of), and we were not trained in what to do if one should be. Now, much older, in a northern state where I also have a CCW permit, I've been bothered by this question. I carry on my person if at all possible, and, if conscious, would ask for a LEO to secure my weapon.If unconscious? This really bothers me. I now carry a DA only pistol with no round in the chamber (I practice the Israeli draw method regularly), so I'm not too worried about accidental discharge -- just about the firearm getting into the wrong hands.

    As Firepoint suggested, I have a lock box in my vehicle, but again, if I were unconscious, how would I convey that information -- and it's not just EMS and police. How about tow trucks, not always staffed with the paragons of virtue?
     
  19. Sharps

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    Speaking for myself as an EMT.
    If the gun is in the holster and not in your hand, I'd ask you to clear it if I thought you were able (or do it myself if you couldn't) and then turn it over to a relative if they were there, or an LEO if they weren't. if the gun is in your hand however... you'd get a good view of my behind as I book it toward the nearest hard cover and call in the Calvary.