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Ham Radios - EDC

Discussion in 'Electronic Devices' started by Kripto, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. np3ba

    np3ba Loaded Pockets

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    I also have the 5'' Clip-on Phone Holster but the VX-7R does not fit in there. So if you have a VX7 buy the CP-L radio holder.
     
  2. FeebleOldMan

    FeebleOldMan Loaded Pockets

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    I was also considering the Yaesu VX-8R and the CP-M.

    VX-8R == Case Size: 2.4 x 3.7 x 0.9 inches (60x95x24.2 mm) (without knob and antenna)
    VX-7R == Case Size: 2.4 x 3.5 x 1.1 inches (60x90x28 mm) (without knob and antenna)

    CP-M == Min: 3.5 x 1.5 x 0.75 inches Max: 4 x 2.5 x 1.5 inches
    CP-L == Min: 4.5 x 2.5 x 1.00 inches Max: 8 x 3.5 x 1.5 inches

    Does your VX-7R fit loosely in the CP-L? It would seem that the CP-M would be a better fit if the dimensions provided are right.
     
  3. np3ba

    np3ba Loaded Pockets

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    I think the CP-L is perfect for the VX-7R. It does not move inside of it so I feel secure is not going to get out of there.
     
  4. AKS

    AKS Empty Pockets

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    Kenwood F6A is my go to radio. Did the mod so it can be used with my duties with a local fire department. Seems like Yaseu is the rig of choice around here and I like my VX2.
     
  5. DSC

    DSC Banned

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    The F6A is not type accepted for use on other than amateur frequencies (and MARS/CAP), but no one seems to have any regard for the law anymore anyway...
     
  6. Nate320

    Nate320 Loaded Pockets

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    I usually have a Motorola XTS 2500 (No Ham freqs, but all of my county's channels for my job) with me ( I don't really like to carry a radio on my belt since it does field questions, unless im actually working :laugh:) , and keep a Yaesu FT60 in my Jeep. I have a 5.11 RUSH 24 with a 5.11 Radio Pouch. Usually keep the moto in the pouch. We have some newer Icom radios purchased for our emergency management agency with the intention of implementing DSTAR to communicate with our state EOC.

    Just wondering how many of you are involved in emergency communications? Being an emergency manager in a larger city, we have a lot of HAMs that are very helpful in many situations, not just storms. Do you guys in the smaller/rural areas volunteer as well?

    Thanks,

    Nate
     
  7. AKS

    AKS Empty Pockets

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    Not even the chief.....
    Besides, the only citations the FCC ever hands out are to unlicensed jammers. Until Riley and company show up at my door I'll carry the F6a that is half the size, half the weight and 5 times better performing than the POS motorola the dept. issues.
     
  8. DSC

    DSC Banned

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    Maybe someone ought to clue them into this thread then. This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about where someone knows what they're doing is wrong, they know they're breaking the law, and they don't care because they think it's a stupid law or whatever their excuse is so they feel they can pick and choose what laws to abide by or not. I'm getting sick of it.

    By your logic, you should be able to drive 120mph anywhere that law isn't actively being enforced. And yes, it is the same thing...there are reasons why you're not supposed to transmit on commercial frequencies with equipment that isn't type accepted. Different consequences but they're both still laws.
     
  9. Kripto

    Kripto Evil Sid

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    Here Here!

    If I noticed someone using ham equipment for non-ham related transmissions, I would happily report it. But then again, I'm an official observer.

    I don't care how light and compact a radio is, there are rules and laws for a reason.

    Coming up in a month is a famous hacker convention that I regularly attend. Often there are people there carrying around their VX7s because they are the "hackers choice" for radios.. When I see one, I usually ask if they are a general or extra yet. When they tell me that they aren't licensed, I usually make a crack about how stupid they are because these days its SO trivially easy to get a license, you have to be an idiot not to do it. :) Then on Sundays we offer a ham cram/testing session ;)
     
  10. AKS

    AKS Empty Pockets

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    OK guys, let's calm down. I carry a lighter radio because when it's 110 degrees and I'm in full turnout gear running around this blazing hills of California I prefer to carry less weight. The Kenwood allows me that luxury. Ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain when in the field.
    I never said I choose to disobey the law because it's stupid, but I see how if you were squinting and drunk you could draw that conclusion. My statement is that I'm a big boy and am willing to suffer the consequences should I get caught. And yes, in that regard it's just like driving 120 mph. While I don't do it daily, if a situation arose where 120 mph speed was required- an emergency with someone's life in danger as an example- then yes, I would do that too. Again, with full understanding that I could be held accountable- and if so then I will face the consequences. The people I work with feel the same way about this, and act accordingly.
    And further to the point, we are talking about maybe 15 minutes of transmit time monthly in fire season, not dept. issued gear for daily use of all personnel, but only those of us with HAM tickets. Also we operate under a dept call sign within the permitted freqs allocated to the dept when out of the HAM bands. We are not out transmitting on any freq we choose like the hackers mentioned below.
    And the unlicensed remark confuses me. The VX7 is a very popular radio with some of the local SAR volunteers, and lots of them don't have HAM tickets. Owning the rig isn't a violation, transmitting is.
    Not trying to stir the pot, just clarify a few things. My intent is not to encourage people to break the law, just sharing what I carry and why. If someone follows my lead and gets caught then I would assume they would not cry when the fine is issued. Furthermore we have discussed this at length and are of the mindset that with a good lawyer it could be argued that the Part 15 violations would not even hold given the fact that we are operating under a licensed freq. with dept. permission to do so. Sure it would be easier to pay the fine, but it could make an attorney wealthy. Kenwood did not make the radio as it is operated, so they can't be held accountable for their manufacture of an illegal radio. And we have not boosted PEP in anyway. So yes, we are breaking a law and do not mean to offend. The best analogy I can make up would be putting 40 minutes worth of coins in the meter when there is an hour worth of enforcement time left. I'm risking the last 20 minutes of getting a ticket, and if it happens I'd pay the fine.
     
  11. DSC

    DSC Banned

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    Ok, I am going to break this down for you and everyone else following this.

    What I actually said was.....
    ...emphasis mine to clarify what I said.

    And then you tried to say I said something different here:
    So who is the "squinting and drunk" one here? Did you even actually read my post in its entirety? My point was it DOES NOT MATTER what excuses you have (and yes, they ARE excuses) for willfully and knowingly breaking the law, you are still breaking the law. Just because you have some excuse for why you choose not to obey the law doesn't make it acceptable or right.

    It's clear from your last post that you really don't have any concept of what part 15 rules are and why they are important, so why don't you just drop it and move on, ok? As long as you know what you're doing is wrong and you're fine with that, great. Selfish and not the smartest behavior, but great.
     
  12. AKS

    AKS Empty Pockets

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    DSC-
    You win. I am breaking a law by using a frequency that I am licensed/authorized for with a radio that I am licensed for, but that radio has not passed muster with the FCC. Guilty for 15 minutes monthly during fire season.
    Am I selfish for not wanting to haul a POS brick in the heat, yep selfish old me.
    And I'm no attorney, so maybe Part 15 is beyond me. But I know my ability to render aid because I was carring that radio is greatly improved. I carry it all the time- the topic of the thread- and because of that I have been able to contact dispatch via a tac channel ( so as not to interfere with priority comms) and have a truck en route in the time it takes to dial 911. My unlawful behavior has helped lots of people because I was on scene with this radio. As a seasonal employee and volunteer (for commo support BTW) I would not have even had access to the brick made by Motorola, much less would I have been carrying it in the first place. I know that there are people who see my behavior and think it's wrong, but I'd rather have the ability to provide aid than not. My hope is that my reputation and intent will aid me in my defense should the time come. This practice is common throughout our dept and many off suty personnel or volunteers do this. Again, we're just trying to help those who need it, but I am wrong.
     
  13. Finnigan

    Finnigan Loaded Pockets

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    The subject of using ham ht's off their designed frequencies, or more specifically on commercial or emergency frequencies intrigued me. On 2 meters this morning I brought the question up to a friend who is a ham and is also heavily involved in designing and setting up emergency communication systems in the SNJ, Philly area. Actually the conversation started about helical wound HT antennas and the inherant loss in them. This friend of mine was talking about how many police officers and emergency personell like to use the smallest antenna possible and often carry the radio ontheir belt, etc. He performed tests, and later gave demonstrations on these antennas and found they could have as high as a 20db loss. He also talked about how there are some remote mic's now that allow you to mount the antenna on them so you can get the antenna up to your shoulder. Even here though my friend found a big diffeence in the performance of using the recommended (by the manufacturer) brand of antenna and another.

    Anyway, I took the opportunity to ask him about wether or not there is a major difference in using a ham radio or a commercial radio on emergency frequencies other than simply wether or not they are type accepted. His answer to me was that there ARE actual performance differences in the radios that warrant using a commercial radio designed for a frequency over a ham radio "opened" to that frequency.

    In recieving, the ham radio is often not as selective of the frequency in question and can recieve more interferance from adjacent frequencies than the commercial radio.

    In transmitting the filtering on a ham radio is designed to be used in band. If you transmit out of band the filtering is not designed to be as good, and you can create spurious emissions which could interfere with other communications. You could conceivably be inadvertantly jamming another emergency channel when transmitting with ham equipment out of band.

    Now, to what degree these problems arise certainly depends on the specific radio and the frequencies we are talking about, but the bottom line is Type Acceptance is not just about paying an extra fee to get a certification. There are requirements for the equipment to pass, and they are there for a reason.

    Now, I'm not presenting this to call anyone on the carpet, or start arguements. I just wanted to give some more in depth information that I got from a ham who is employed in the emergency communication business who is more "in the know" than most other hams I know.

    For the record, I am a ham and I have an old HT I have been considering using on the MURS frequencies for certain recreational activities. I am rethinking this due to the above conversation.
     
  14. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    The FCC is truly fortunate that the ham community is so full of statist clowns who think they're the FCC SWAT team....

    It must save the treasury a small fortune every year.
     
  15. DSC

    DSC Banned

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    Just what is that supposed to mean??

    Obviously you have never been on the receiving end of malicious intereference. Some of us HAVE.

    I find your attitude in your previous post offensive and uncalled for.
     
  16. Lugsalot

    Lugsalot EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Be civil or refrain from posting, gentlemen.

    :mm:
     
  17. Flight-ER-Doc

    Flight-ER-Doc Loaded Pockets

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    Actually, I have been on the receiving end of malicious interference (from FCC licensed operators, commercial and ham) during real live search and rescue missions....among others.

    However, having a radio that is modified to go out of band, or using it on a fire department, has nothing whatsoever to do with bad operators. Its two totally different subjects, one that I care a great deal about (bad operators) and one that is simply a fiction of the FCC: Most all radios these days that can be modified to go out of band COULD meet FCC type acceptance if they were submitted - in fact, most commercial radios are identical except for the processor programming, to ham radios. The reason the manufacturers don't submit them is economic: It costs a fair penny to have an independent lab certify them, and then the manufacturer couldn't charge 10x the amount for the same radio.

    Now, if you can show me a case where a modified ham radio being used by a firefighter, SAR worker, or other emergency worker was actually causing interference, or actually broadcasting outside of the FCC specs for the radio service, I'd care. Since it doesn't happen, you can't.

    In the mean time, I modify my radios, and even occasionally use them to save lives, and I'm happy to do so. If the FCC wants to pink slip me the very first thing that will have to happen is for a senior field engineer to drag his carcass out of bed, check out a monitoring van and then drive to where I happen to be to verify that it was, indeed, my modified radio that was causing the interference. Since that doesn't happen, the SFE's get to sleep in at night.
     
  18. DSC

    DSC Banned

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    Actually, everything Finnigan related in his previous post is true. I looked into this a few years back and found the same information as well.

    There is a reason these rules exist and it is not a figment of the FCC's imagination that non type-accepted transceivers cause malicious interference.

    I don't have the time or energy to go look up all the FCC NAL's on this, but they are there for all to see if anyone wants to look.
     
  19. Finnigan

    Finnigan Loaded Pockets

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    I am just going to reitterate, I did not look this information up, and I do not have first hand experience. I spoke to a friend and fellow ham who has a long history in the emergency communications industry. He is not an FCC employee, he is a County employee as far as I know. He claims he has first hand experience testing radio gear and has found amateur gear to be inferior in selectivity when used on emergency frequencies, and has seen them transmit spurious emissions when transmitting out of band. I have no reason to doubt him.

    Now, I'm not going to say he has tested every radio, and I don't even know if he has performed these tests within the last 10 years; but this is the information he related to me.

    Also, I don't think spurious emissions are really "malicious" interferance. Certainly some jammers use ham equipment to cause Malicious interference, but that is not the fault of the equipment.

    Now, maybe Yaesu/Vertex, and Icom are using the same radio circuit designs for both their amateur and their commercial gear, but I certainly wouldn't put my old Alinco 2m HT modded for out of band up against a Motorolla type accepted radio of the same vintage on the old Business band.
     
  20. AKS

    AKS Empty Pockets

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    Flight-ER-Doc,
    well said. Having spent the past 18 months trying to get enforcement action taken against 2 different "jammers" and hearing first-hand from both unpaid SWAT guys and actual FCC staff they are slammed with real violations by those who are malicious in their intent. And we had hours of recording with both voice ID and directional azmuths pointing to the offenders and they took 4 months to go knock on the doors- one was a fishing boat. My suspicion is much like yours, it is highly doubtful for any action to be taken.
    And yes the fees and political :censored: associated with getting acceptance is insane. ICOM went through a long round of it in 2002-3 to get some military contracts and it was only worth it then because of the large number of units they were going to sell.
    So again, for those of us doing this on rare occasion to provide aid in real time using a 5 watt HT on a rubber duck are not likely high on the list of those either causing interferance or of those to be hunted down and cited.