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Governor Jerry Brown Signs California AB 485

Discussion in 'The Breakroom' started by azpops, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. azpops

    azpops Loaded Pockets

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  2. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    Another government over-reach. A typical liberal nonsense approach to solving problems. They make a law that negatively impacts EVERYONE instead of dealing directly with just the people who are the problem.

    It is already illegal to keep dogs in conditions that are cruel. Let’s just enforce that. Find and arrest the puppy mill operators when they are found to be keeping dogs in cruel conditions, then enforce the punishments to the full extent of the law.

    The fact that some people do this does not give the government authority to interfere with the legitimate interests of those who don’t. EVER.

    I agree with what they are trying to do, but believe they are going about it the wrong way.
     
  3. A.B.

    A.B. Loaded Pockets

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    Here in Holland the pet stores only sell fish and birds and such. If you want a cat or dog you can get one cheap at an animal shelter. But they screen you. They are non profit. And if you want a purebred you can get one from a breeder. They are mostly enthousiasts. But you pay a lot of money for those dogs.

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  4. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    No one cares about Holland. . Totally just joking, dude.

    But you bring to light a good point I had not thought of yet. What the article mentions doesn’t indicate that this law really does anything to shut down puppy mills. They can still operate in California and sell outside The state. Soon people will just go straight to the breeder for purebred dogs. That breeder will be just a front for the mill- a clean, respectable looking place off site from the mill.
     
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  5. ThaMac

    ThaMac Loaded Pockets

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    You really had to make this about politics, didn’t you?


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  6. ThaMac

    ThaMac Loaded Pockets

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    We have new laws about that in Austria as well. And the Polish car trunk sellers are under pressure by the police. So far it’s looking way better for the pets.

    Could it be better? Sure. But you gotta Start somewhere.


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  7. A.B.

    A.B. Loaded Pockets

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    I know about puppy mills. They have them in Belgium. Or used to have them. I don't know. But the people that breed dogs here are mostly animal lovers. Sure, they're also in it for the money. But they take good care of the pets. You get to meet the parents and the litter before you can even take one home. They also like to know about your home life and if the pup will get a good home. Otherwise they refuse to sell to you. A big clue here is the price. They ask a lot of money for a dog with a certificate and shots. If they don't ask questions and a hefty price, shy away.

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  8. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    By virtue of the fact that it was about a law made by politicians, the original post is about politics. I didn’t make it political- the OP did. The unspoken underlying theme of my post was that we need to elect politicians who will actually enforce existing laws, rather than believe just making new ones somehow solves problems.

    I do care about the well being of the dogs. I just believe there are better ways to go about ensuring it. So long as we rely on laws to solve the problem, politics will always be a factor.
     
    #8 0311B50, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  9. ThaMac

    ThaMac Loaded Pockets

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    Why then not saying “That law might not work, because...” instead of starting with a rant about the government and politics and liberals? Is it your motives or your communication skills? But this part ends here for me.

    Guess the problem has many layers and the US have to start somewhere, instead of saying “there must be better ways”. There are so many people out there, which profit from animal cruelty. We should make it harder for unscrupulous individuals to abuse them. Similar laws in other countries show, that this approach seems to put pressure on the market. Doesn’t matter which state in the US makes the head start. The more are following suit the better.


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  10. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    it's important to start in the right way.
    once poorly written laws are passed, the "laws of unintended consequences" surface.
    this particular law will hurt retailers and tax revenue.
    the puppy mills will continue to churn out puppies, unabated, and possibly bolstered by the reduction of legitimate competition.
    California has become notoriously business unfriendly.
    many see this as another example of that.
    on a personal level, I would never get a pet from anywhere but a shelter or rescue.
     
    Last edited by kukla, Jan 1, 2019
    #10 kukla, Jan 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  11. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    Well said. Thanks
     
  12. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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    No. The other states do not need to adopt a similar law. California has not proven this is the best approach.

    I am not the consumer who would buy a purebred just to buy a purebred. I will buy a trained dog aka trained bird dog or herding dog.
     
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  13. ThaMac

    ThaMac Loaded Pockets

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    The argument “will hurt retailers and tax revenue” doesn’t matter to me. Profit, or money per se, is not my primary motivator in life and should not be when it’s about certain things, just like this one.

    But maybe you have a better idea for a working law and can call your congressman


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  14. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    Perhaps you missed this part of my post:
    "the puppy mills will continue to churn out puppies, unabated, and possibly bolstered by the reduction of legitimate competition."
    hence, the law as written will be counter-productive for the very reason that it is said to be written.
    a parallel to this is gun control laws.
    they almost NEVER produce what they are touted to produce.
    they are written under the guise of crime control, yet repeatedly fail to reduce crime.
    what they do produce are armed criminals, and a law abiding populace restricted from self and home protection.
    these are just some of the reasons that things become politicized in the U.S.
    many people tend to jump on these programs without assessing the effectiveness and possible ramifications.
     
    Last edited by kukla, Jan 2, 2019
    #14 kukla, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  15. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    They keep writing new laws intruding further and further into the lives of average citizens instead of dealing with the actual problem people.

    The same people writing laws making more and more things illegal are writing other laws reducing sentences and fines for violating all laws.

    It’s as if they say- “You can’t put someone in prison because they were mean to dogs, that’s cruel. Instead, let’s write a law that says pet stores can only sell rescue dogs.” They think that will somehow stop puppy mills.

    How’s that mentality working with drug laws? Not so well. We are to a point that distribution of serious amounts of drugs gets a guy a 3 year prison sentences with suspended imposition and he serves 30 days shock time.

    Stupid criminals openly disobey laws and smarter ones skirt around them. There is no deterrent value in our criminal justice system. Enforce the law with some teeth and watch how things straighten up.

    We already have laws against animal cruelty. Lock up and fine the bastards running cruel puppy mills to the point they could not possibly open again. Leave everybody else the hell alone.
     
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  16. McNasty

    McNasty Loaded Pockets

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    How can such s good law start a pissing contest?
    Average citizens don't run puppy mills or do they buy from them directly.
    They unknowingly buy from them via clean and bright pet stores.
     
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  17. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    very well put!
     
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  18. 0311B50

    0311B50 Loaded Pockets

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    Because it isn’t a good law. It was totally unnecessary because there are already laws that could be used to fix the problem. It, most likely, won’t be enforced any better than the current ones.
     
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  19. ThaMac

    ThaMac Loaded Pockets

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    #19 ThaMac, Jan 2, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  20. kukla

    kukla Loaded Pockets

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    it's NOT a good law & at least some the reason for that is pretty well explained in this thread.