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First time gun buyer looking for 9mm suggestions

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by mayran, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. jwhite75

    jwhite75 Loaded Pockets

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  2. edcer

    edcer Loaded Pockets

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    "In any case...as to choosing a pistol. Even though I love Glocks, I often hesitate to recommend them to new or inexperienced shooters. The reason for this is because the only external safety on a Glock is on the face of the trigger...and new shooters sometimes get careless about keeping their fingers out of the trigger guard area until they're ready to fire. So as not to be misunderstood, Glocks are extremely safe...when handled correctly."

    I agree that the Glock is a great gun,but is not the gun for a new shooter. Just to give you an example. One of the LEO's in my state accidentally shot himself when re holstering his Glock. I thought to myself how did he do that? There were no details in the original news story. That evening I went down to the post office to get my mail wearing my new raincoat,it was the first garment I had owned with a shock cord on the bottom hem. I left my pistol in my truck as required by law and went in and got my mail. Once back in the truck I started to reholster the Glock.I felt some resistance and stopped my reholster attempt.When I turned on the interior light I saw that the shock cord had some how got in the holster. I now remove shock cords on any garment that has them. Would a new shooter recognize this?

    There have been several instances of LEO's having ND when reholstering a Glock. The most famous is probably the DEA guy that was doing a demonstration in front of a class of school kids.He just stated something like I am the only one in the room qualified to carry a Glock BANG he shoots himself in the leg!
    I recommend a double action revolver for a first handgun.I you are determined to get an auto loader,get one with and external safety and a grip frame safety.
    A .22 is a very good first choice.
    I would stay away from Taurus.
     
  3. cameraman

    cameraman Loaded Pockets

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    I think one could pretty easily make the case that there have been NDs with every handgun that has been on the market for more than a couple years. I agree with what you're saying - it is possible for something to get in the trigger guard, but it's also possible with a grip safety (which will likely be depressed during a reholster). Additionally, the DEA example is not entirely applicable - he did not shoot himself for lack of a safety, he shot himself because he failed to clear the weapon and pulled the trigger. There really is no substitute for situational awareness.
     
  4. HOMELAND SECURITY HAM

    HOMELAND SECURITY HAM Loaded Pockets

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    Hi mayran,

    PM me and I will see if we can go over your options to help with your decision making process. There have been several good suggestions in this thread, however it is unknown if any of them are what you are looking for. There are many issues from, are there little ones in the home? Or ones that might visit the home. Security issues, instruction that might or might not be available to you, as well as the quality of the instruction.

    For an initial firearm, if you are h _ _ _ bent on not starting with a .22, I suggest that you definately get a 9MM that there is a quality .22 conversion kit for it. The ammo savings alone will pay for the conversion kit in a verrrrry short time, and give you the ability for inexpensive target practice and plinking, and still leaving you with a gun you are interested in. I have been an NRA certified instructor for decades, a police officer for 30 years, an EMT for 35 yrs, and I am my police departments armorer.

    I DONT SELL GUNS, I will just try to assist you with your decision making process. When we are done going over a small Q&A it might help you decide which way you want to look. Also ask your local police officers what they think and why. I hate to say it but with the economy the way it is, a lot of the gun shops have turned out to be like used car salesman (they never used to be that way). Now you are just another sale.

    You are on the right track renting range guns. Check out every thing you can think of, from how well you pick up on the sights (even though they can be changed), to how the grip fits your hands. The recoil will vary from gun to gun, depending on the gun. This is due to a number of issues from the grip angle, the axis of the bore over the grip, the recoil spring assembly (not to mention the ammo) etc...

    This thread has a lot of personal preferences and what is great for some may be completely unacceptable for you.

    I look forward to hearing from you,

    Cliff
     
  5. Rob72

    Rob72 Loaded Pockets

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    A Glock was my first auto pistol, and I will say, it made me a far more careful gun handler. ( ;

    Having said that, my daughter is looking to get a Sig 250. The 250 has (currently) the greatest variety in grip height/width and contours, and has what is probably the lightest mainspring of any current auto, making it very easy for her to operate. If you can't easily, repeatedly cycle the slide easily with your hands, loading and malfunction clearing becomes a major problem. Prices locally are right around $400, with 2 magazines.

    I like the Sig P6/225, but it is large for a single stacker, parts are becoming hard to find, and magazines are on the pricey side.

    Edit to add: work the controls on a New In Box Gun, before you buy a model you've rented. Range guns see thousands of rounds, and (generally) will be much easier/smoother in operation because the mechanism is so worn-in.
     
  6. Mitty

    Mitty Loaded Pockets

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    Whit all due respect, I suggest that you step back and ask yourself this question: "Do I want to buy a 9mm or do I want to learn to shoot?"

    IMHO it is close to impossible for a newbie to learn to shoot with a center-fire gun, even a low powered one like a 9mm. First, the ammunition is expensive. Second, shooting a center-fire gun is tiring and unpleasant.

    Amen. Your first purchase should be a .22 like a good Ruger target model and a case (yes, 5000 rounds) of ammunition. Aguilla Standard Velocity is decent and not expensive. Get a little training, then start spending time at the range shooting 100-200 rounds per session. Or mabe more. After you can generally keep 'em on the paper, join a league and measure yourself against guys who know how to shoot.

    There is a third reason, too, to avoid the center fire gun -- particularly for the "obsessive personality type." You will be prone to blame the gun when a round goes somewhere you don't expect. Many times I have seen shooters arrive at the range, hang a target at 5 or 10 yards, shoot a group they can't cover with two hands, and then blame the gun. In fact, any of the guns mentioned here should be able to shoot a one-hole group from a machine rest at that range. But with anything short of a Sig P210 target model, you will never be sure. I guarantee you, however, that even a lowly Ruger can outshoot you at least to 25 yards and probably to 50.

    If you are still determined to buy a 9, get a boat anchor like a Beretta 92-series or even a 1911. Then, at least, the recoil will not stop you after shooting 10 or 20 rounds. (20 is about my limit with my Kahr PM9). Even the larger Glocks (I have a 30) are too light. Also consider reloading to cut your cost. The small Dillon Square Deal can be bought used at a reasonable price and sold for about the same money when you don't want it any more. Work up a soft load for practice. But whatever you do, the 9 will never be as economical and pleasant to shoot as a .22. So you will do much less of it and, consequently, you will probably not learn to really shoot.
     
  7. Tradecraft

    Tradecraft Banned

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    I completely and respectfully disagree! Most LEO's get Glocks (most are new shooters) and the problem is not the safety mechanisms on the gun; it is user error. Train properly and learn the fundamentals; then type of firearm you use is irrelevant. I don't subscribe to the theory of dumbing down the shooter.

    My recommendation would be a Glock 19. You can go with the Glock 26 but I think it is too small.
     
  8. Sproles

    Sproles Loaded Pockets

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    Another HUGE vote for the CZ. I ave owned many different brands and calibers. Now, before I talk too much, I have to say that I am not a Huge Glock fan. Reliable gun, tried and true, but not my favorite.

    The CZ P-01 is my favorite gun that I have owned. It is my favorite not because it is the prettiest, or the most expensive or for any one reason, except the sucker just shoots! Straight, accurate, comfortable, great size, perfect point for me, fits my hand like a freaking glove. I personally really like the da/sa action over a dao.

    This gun is so accurate it is crazy. Like most guns, this gun is more accurate that I am, but I am shooting this particular gun better than I have shot any other gun before...and I have owned some nice shooters: Kahr, Sig, Colt, Springfield.

    The other guns I would encourage you to look at (for a good balance of value and cost) and that would be the Springfield XD. I have not looked at their prices lately, but the one I owned was a good gun and a ton of features for the price. I owned one of the Taurus guns when the millennium first came out...it was not bad, but they would have had to improve them for me to buy another one (which - they very well may have.)

    Good luck! Handle as many different guns as you can. My advice is go to a good size gun show, do NOT look at price tags first. Figure out your caliber (9mm) action (dao, sa/da, etc) and then handle them. Mag capacity is an issue, but should not be a deciding factor.

    Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.
    Sproles
     
  9. mayran

    mayran Empty Pockets

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    OK, thanks for the multitude of replies. Excuse what I intend to be a brief response as I broke my hand at work yesterday and typing is difficult and slow. I shall attempt to answer a few questions:

    Are there other (potential) shooters in the house? Wife and daughter (3). If either are interested, I will likely start them w/ a .22. Either rented or one I will have picked up by then.

    Little ones at home? Yes, daughter, 3 yrs. Safety is a concern. I was told by the guy I went shooting with that while a great gun, a Glock is probably not the best first gun for a new shooter.

    I have never owned a gun or even shot a gun before last Saturday. I intend on taking the beginners course at the local range. I value professional instruction and am looking forward to this class.

    Why a 9mm? To be honest, I just enjoyed shooting the 9mms much more than the .22s that I shot. I am aware of the cost difference in ammo and am ok with it. In all actuality, it probably won't be long after purchasing my 9mm that I also buy a .22. I enjoyed the .22, but if I had to pick just one to shoot, it would be the 9mm.

    I liked the DA/SA action on 2 out of the 4 9mm's that I shot, so I will lean that way for a purchase. I shot a S&W (don't know which model, but about the size of the PX4), a Beretta PX4 compact, what I believe was a Beretta M9 (if not, it was very similar), and a small Kel-Tec (6+1 size mag). I also shot a few .22's.

    My "obsessive personality type" usually leads me to research the heck out of things and try things out. I am into learning and information gathering on all things that I am interested in. I would much sooner blame myself than a gun for inaccuracies in target shooting. I am fairly methodical and patient and realize it will be some time before I am able to "outshoot" a gun's abilities.

    HOMELAND SECURITY HAM: thanks so much for your offer to help via pm and your good advise, however after typing this much, my broken hand is bothering me, so I may not get that pm out to you in a timely manner.

    Bullzaye: thanks for the lengthy post. Lots of good points. You are right about the .38. I couldn't remember the exact caliber.

    Above all, I value all of your opinions and agree with most everything that all of you are saying. Thanks so much for all of your input. I plan to get out and shoot as many different brands as I can get my hands on before buying.
     
  10. HOMELAND SECURITY HAM

    HOMELAND SECURITY HAM Loaded Pockets

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    Hi mayran,

    Dont worry, I will probably be around for a long time. I am sure that you will find it worth it. PM me and I will give you my cell number, it is easier than typing. Get well soon.

    Cliff
     
  11. MedicX

    MedicX Loaded Pockets

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    I disagree with the whole starting with a .22. Whatever caliber you begin with or buy, you will learn how to handle it. As others will and have told you, every gun "acts" differently.

    I have a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. I love it. I originally had my heart set on a Springfield Armory XDm 9mm, but quickly felt that the M&P just fit my hand better. Find what feels good to you. Something that you can acquire you target easily without overly focusing...

    You say around the $400 range, but if you find something that just feels right that doesn't cost that much more, save a week or two longer and get that... It just makes sense, and you won't regret the purchase... Good Luck.
     
  12. BrandonR

    BrandonR Empty Pockets

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    ANother vote for the Kahr CW9...if you're open to revolvers, also look at the S&W 442/642.
     
  13. edcer

    edcer Loaded Pockets

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    I agree a grip safety would likely be depressed during a reholster,that is why I recommended an external safety as well.
    I also agree there have been ND's with just about every firearm.
    I also agree that I remembered the DEA agents ND wrong. As you stated one has to have situational awareness at all times when handling weapons.
    I will link it here as there is a lesson to be learned from it.

    [video=youtube;S7ufT_6Kgy0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0[/video]
     
  14. Jean

    Jean Loaded Pockets

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    The only 9mm I have is a Taurus 709 Slim - I've been happy with it, great trigger, very accurate, just disappears IWB; but I don't want to make a blanket recommendation of Taurus based on one gun. As noted above, start with an instructor - actually I would start with a .22lr rifle, then get familiar with a shotgun, before moving into handguns.

    My personal guide with handguns is if I can't get to range once a month, I don't carry.
     
  15. edcer

    edcer Loaded Pockets

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    We can agree to respectfully disagree on the selection of a Glock as a first handgun.:agree:
    There have been a number of LEO ND's with Glock over the years .I agree with your statements about safety and user error being the cause of ND's. Who is more likely to make a mistake in gun handling? A new shooter? An experienced shooter? Either can be a complacent shooter, but a new shooter doesn't know what he doesn't know.

    Training is important,so a new shooter gets some training,he will be on his own sooner than someone going through the PD's academy.

    From the Wash. Post;
    Department officials knew that diligent training would be crucial to ensure a safe transition from revolvers to semiautomatics. In February 1988, the departmental committee studying the handgun issue noted that the revolver was safer "for the inexperienced shooter" and that "the accidental discharge potential is greater for the semiautomatic." But the committee predicted that "proper training and clearly defined departmental policy" for the semiautomatic "should negate this factor."
    In December 1988, the department made a surprise announcement that it was switching to the Glock.

    The decision was immediately controversial. Dissenting voices were beginning to be heard about "Glock Perfection." Perhaps the most significant criticism came from the FBI. The FBI Academy's firearms training unit tested various semiautomatic handguns and in a 1988 report gave the Glock low marks for safety. The report cited the weapon's "high potential for unintentional shots."
    Unintentional shots would turn out to be a disquieting byproduct of Glock's unique design, according to many experts and to lawsuits filed against Glock in the last decade. Even though the Glock does not have an external manual safety, it incorporates three internal safeties intended to prevent the gun from discharging if dropped or jostled. A unique feature of the Glock is that a shooter disengages all three safeties at once by pulling the trigger.
    "You can't blame the Glock for accidental discharges," said former police chief Isaac Fulwood Jr., who took over the force a few months after the District switched to Glocks. "The gun doesn't accidentally shoot. The officer has got to pull the trigger."


    To the OP,if you do go with the Glock remember,Holster reluctantly,and it is OK to look at your holster before you reholster.You see some people try to holster as fast and hard as they can,save that for Hollywood.
     
  16. Rob72

    Rob72 Loaded Pockets

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    Fixed that. (; Slightly OT, but most Depts/Agencies spend >$20K/year on sexual harrassment/cultural sensitivity/liability reduction, but less than $3K on live fire/FOF/MUC. (Just a general very simplified average, from FBI to the 10 member small-town dept. Where your local PD allocates their funding is public record, so...) Most annual quals are </=100 rounds.

    In any event...
     
  17. Rob72

    Rob72 Loaded Pockets

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    In that context, the Sigs with the loooong DA(O), or a S&W 39 series with the magazine disconnect safety would be fine examples of weapons that could both be ready to use and safe. Manual safeties are "okay", but I could operate a BHP at 6, as long as there was one in the chamber to get started with...

    My experience: the more shooting is a family affair, the less "mysterious and enticing" it is to kids, FWIW.
     
  18. Jean

    Jean Loaded Pockets

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    I might also carefully - not generalizing - add, that a significant number of more white collar side of the FBI are not as tactically sound as most local patrol officers.
     
  19. VinnyP
    • In Omnia Paratus

    VinnyP Loaded Pockets

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    On the range and for a beginner I can see your point but it's not just hollywood. In real world use, if you've taken your gun out and are putting it away you want your eyes up and looking. It would be a fail for us to look down when re-holstering.
     
  20. edcer

    edcer Loaded Pockets

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    I will do a 360 degree scan ,if there is still a threat I will not be putting my gun away. When I do reholster it will be slow and with little force. I am not a cop, I have no need to cuff/search someone. A quick glance at the holster is OK in my view. It would be a big fail to holster a Glock with some obstruction in the holster that may cause an ND.