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Discussion in 'Knives' started by baja820, Apr 30, 2014.
What are your thoughts on Ernie's chisel blade? Smart, or lazy? Im not sure if I like it or not...
I have a Commander, aside from not liking to sharpen recurves, I see the point of it. As much as I have abused that knife over the years, it is the easiest knife I own to bring back to original, grind wise. sharpen one side as normal, no forgetting which side or did I do that evenly?? Then strop the burr off the other side and you're good to go.
No disrespect to Mr Emerson, but I think if you have a simple Sharpmaker, it's not that hard to sharpen regular grinds. Maybe I'm not abusive enough of my knives (actually they see some hard use from time to time) but it never occurred to me that I should sharpen any of my knives, let alone $150+ ones, on rocks and steel pipes... YMMV.
It's the reason I won't own an emerson, I hate chisel grinds.
I realise that's just my opinion though, and not meant to be a slur on his knives - many folk love them - they just ain't for me
I've had am Emerson and I've made chisel ground knives before. But one thing I just don't get... why is the grind on the wrong side?! There is no reason not to grind it the other way so that a right hand knife(due to the liner lock) has a right hand blade as well. I never understood this, and sold my Emerson due mostly because of this fact. Really. I can't see any reason why they are ground with a left handed blade.
Not sure about the grind. Still have to try it out one day. Until I saw the Emersons I also didn't noticed that my bread knife has a serrated chisel grind on the same side as the Emersons and it cuts quite well, so it can't be that bad...
I've got no problem with the chisel grind. Sharpening isn't any easier or harder, just slightly different. The only performance difference is it tends to pull one direction with my cqc7. It's neither a turn off or a desired addition for me.
But the difference is a bread knife only cuts straight down. Imagine carving a stick. Knife in right hand, blade on top of the stick and cutting away from you. For a right handed user, this sort of cut is very common. But the Emerson grind makes it harder to dig the edge in, versus I'd the chisel were on the other side. It's not impossible to use an Emerson grind, but why they choose that side with no benefits I can see perplexed me, especially when they claim the whole use of the chisel grind was for the user's benefit.
Im considering re profiling the flat side to make it symmetrical. Would this be a bad idea?
No I've heard of it being done.it would just take time and you'd lose any benefit of the"chisel grind."
For what its worth, the point of a chisel grind is to offer a sharper edge. When you have a chisel grind, your overall edge angle can be as low as (or lower than) 25 degrees. Now compare this to a knife sharpened at 15 degrees per side, your overall edge angle is 30 degrees. That being said, I respectfully think that emerson knives do not fully utilize the grind.
The big difference is on how you sharpen said grind. If you sharpen the entire bevel at one angle you will produce a fairly weak edge (especially if the back side is flat ground). This edge will not last very long. To remedy this you sharpen the entire bevel in sections to produce what the japanese call a hamaguri-ba. This is basically a convexed edge that appears to be one flat angle to the eye. When you combine this technique with a blade in which the back side has been slightly hollow ground you get a very strong, very sharp, very long lasting edge. This is the essence behind chisel ground sushi knives like the yanagi-ba and deba.
This sharpening technique isn't hard, but as far as I'm aware it cannot be done any other way than freehand. So those of you who like guided systems may be out of luck. If you want to try it, do what I did. Buy yourself a cheap CRKT M16 with a chisel grind and give it a shot.
I will say that my CQC-7 is probably my worst slicing blade. I don't know why I love the knife so much, but I just do.
That said, my CQC-8 and CQC-7A are V ground with a chisel edge and I love the way they sharpen up and cut. In fact, I can't feel the difference in cutting between them any any V-edge knife I've ever cut with. The 7B Tanto blade cuts asymmetrically, but the 8 and 7A don't have that problem at all. They're amazing slicers, and they sharpen amazingly easily.
To the earlier Sharp Maker comment - I can't get a knife anywhere near as sharp with the SM as I can with my 2 sided water stone. Free hand really isn't too difficult and gives a much better edge. On top of that, the Emerson sharpens up much more quickly and easily on stones, and I'd consider the side they chose to grind to be the correct side because it is more comfortable to cut into the stone on that side than the back side.
Ernest obviously isn't a straight razor user, judging by his comments on the sharpest blade in the house. Comparing the two doesn't bring much light to the argument. If you like chisel grinds buy an Emerson, if not you'll be spoilt for choice. Some credit for Emerson popularity must go to the 'story' and slick marketing.
I am a straight razor user, and there are chisel ground straight razors. The most mind-blowingly sharp razor I've ever encountered was a Kamisori, chisel ground. Wish I could afford one of my own.
Not saying that a chisel is just better, but it sure as heck can make a great edge.
A good point, I'd forgotten about Kamisoris. There are a few Iwasakis around in the UK as well. Very expensive, maybe the only reasonably priced chisel grinds are wood-chisels.
I dont like these grind as they dont cut 'straight' if that makes any sense. They will either dig in to the left or to the right whereas symmetrical profiles will always tend to go straight. On razor blades that's totally fine as you only drag them across the to be working surface (aka skin) perpendicularly to the edge but its a completely different story to knives that are used to cut stuff.
Also, for the record, all my razors are either hollow-grind (straight razors) or flat (double edge blades). I don't like Mr Emersons marketing.
Supposedly, the left-handed chisel grind results in the knife trying to arc away from the user rather than toward the user, making it safer. While the asymetric grind does result in arcing cuts, I personally don't believe that makes it safer. I have four Emersons, and quite frankly they've all been retired because A) they didn't hold an edge worth a darn, B) they were hard for me to sharpen since I was so accustomed to sharpening V grinds and C) they don't cut straight without a great deal of extra effort, making them tiring to use. Apparently my definition of "hard use" is much different from Mr. Emerson's if he actually believes his advertising line.
The point I was trying to make is that the Sharpmaker gives more than enough sharpness for my purposes.
I'm not good enough at freehand sharpening, but I don't see a need to improve in this respect.
Your needs and skills are obviously different from mine. I'm not saying that Emersons are not good knives, they're just not for me.
No need to explain. I just wanted to point out the advantage of the edge grind they use on stones in contrast to it on the sharp maker. Wasn't meant to argue against you, just to shed light on another side of it in the thread over all. I use a sharp maker myself for a lot of my sharpening.
First and foremost, Emerson manufactures edged WEAPONS (that just so happen to function well in general usage. ) In a self defense scenario, I don't much care if the blade is pulling to the right, I want more mass backing the edge (which can be sharper and stronger due to its asymetry) so it doesn't snap.
For Edc I choose something with a conventional grind because it works better for cutting paper and cardboard, but that doesn't make an Emerson inferior. It's a matter of choosing the right tool for the intended purpose.