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EDC guns vs first aid

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by irl314, Mar 13, 2017.

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  1. irl314

    irl314 Loaded Pockets

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    I've been on this site for several months now, and I've noticed something interesting. This mostly pertains to forum members with carry permits. I noticed that many edc loadouts that include a firearm don't include a first aid kit or even a tourniqet. I found this interesting as it implies that these loadouts are for saving people by killing, rather than saving people with medical attention. Hell, if when you put an assailant down but they survive, would it not be prudent to give him medical attention so he may be tried under the court of law? Rather than killing a man and having to justify it to both the courts and to yourself? Wouldn't you also be more likely to encounter people with injuries that require immediate attention rather than people trying to harm you our people around you? And in the case of an assailant, there's a high chance of people around requiring aid. I don't mean to ruffle feathers but I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say. And just to clarify, this is by no means an attempt to bash people who carry guns, this is aimed at those who carry a firearm and no medical supplies.
     
    efforting likes this.
  2. Telstar

    Telstar Loaded Pockets

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    Firstly.. I dont have a "load out". I am just a guy going about my day to day and not someone on a mission. That said, any person who forces me to use a firearm in lawful self defense is simply being afforded an excellent opportunity to attack me a [second] time if I come into their close proximity. If I am forced to use my weapon..I will use it and then I will be removing myself from the danger area. I will call 911 and apprise them of what has happened and I will most certainly request EMS assistance for any downed person. I will not hang around to offer aid to my attacker, collect or maintain evidence, question witnesses or capture anyone. I carry very limited first aid supplies in my vehicle and those items are for myself and those with me. The only time I carry first aid on my person is when I am in the remote wilderness and have no immediate access to my vehicle. I am not a sentinel, paramedic or policeman... I am just a guy who happens to carry a gun and wants to mind his own business. I will worry about court battles when and if they come. If I find myself in the middle of a dangerous situation, the only thing on my mind will be getting through it unharmed.

    One thing that I have learned about bad situations is that a person needs to be focused, collected and measured. I do not really think that I can do that very well if I am using valuable brain cells trying to construct the best potential court defense when I should be actively defending myself from physical harm and staying safe. Good luck
     
    Last edited by Telstar, Mar 13, 2017
    #2 Telstar, Mar 13, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  3. Vartz04

    Vartz04 Loaded Pockets

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    If someone did something to cause me to pull the gun let alone the trigger I don't really care what happens to them. Regarding high level first aid... I am not trained in that ...yet. But I do want to be for the fact that there will be non criminal victims that need help.

    I also do not carry bag with me except into and out of my office so it is highly
    Unlikely that I would have those supplies with me. Those who always have their bag don't have that excuse I guess
     
  4. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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    When I conceal carry and if I needed to use my weapon, a tourniquet would not be useful or needed. Most who have CCW would aim for the body as well.

    I always carry a first aid kit in the car which is specialized for my family. I just helped my son assemble a first aid kit for his first car.
     
  5. MCPOWoller

    MCPOWoller Loaded Pockets

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  6. huntnow

    huntnow Loaded Pockets

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    There are first aid kits everywhere; in the mall, department or drug stores, theaters. They'll all very likely allow you to use them should you need to provide care for a wounded person. They will not however provide you with a firearm to protect yourself/family at the exact moment you most need it. That's on you.
     
  7. ViennaGambit

    ViennaGambit Loaded Pockets

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    If you think after a shooting you will have the ability to provide aid in anything resembling a somewhat meaningful way, between the adrenaline and shock, you have another thing coming.

    I am also willing to bet that 99% of the people who EDC a tourniquet have zero training in how to actually apply one. You can do serious damage if not applied properly.

    Further, crouching over someone you just shot with your gun out in an unavoidable stafte of shock is an easy way to get yourself shot or :censored:ed up by the responding LE.

    Lastly, in a self defense scenario you don't shoot to hurt - you're not going to just shoot them in th e leg as a warning. Anyone who is worth shooting once, is probably worth shooting a few more times... thus rendering a TQ obsolete :)

    Seriously though, this seems like nothing but trolling.
     
  8. irl314

    irl314 Loaded Pockets

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    1. I've been on this site for several months now, and I've noticed something interesting. This mostly pertains to forum members with carry permits. I noticed that many edc loadouts that include a firearm don't include a first aid kit or even a tourniqet. I found this interesting as it implies that these loadouts are for saving people by killing, rather than saving people with medical attention. Hell, if when you put an assailant down but they survive, would it not be prudent to give him medical attention so he may be tried under the court of law? Rather than killing a man and having to justify it to both the courts and to yourself? Wouldn't you also be more likely to encounter people with injuries that require immediate attention rather than people trying to harm you our people around you? And in the case of an assailant, there's a high chance of people around requiring aid. I don't mean to ruffle feathers but I'm genuinely interested in what people have to say. And just to clarify, this is by no means an attempt to bash people who carry guns, this is aimed at those who carry a firearm and no medical supplies.
     
  9. charlie fox

    charlie fox Loaded Pockets

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    I think the "Stop the Bleed" campaign is changing the paradigm, but its happening slowly. I carry a SWAT-T but more for myself or my team; I would only use it on someone I shot if it was tactically sound to do so. This may become a double-edged sword as attorneys begin to use the presidential program to put defensive shooters in a bad light if they don't carry some sort of first aid supplies as well as a gun.
     
  10. charlie fox

    charlie fox Loaded Pockets

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    I think the "Stop the Bleed" campaign is changing the paradigm, but its happening slowly. I carry a SWAT-T but more for myself or my team; I would only use it on someone I shot if it was tactically sound to do so. This may become a double-edged sword as attorneys begin to use the presidential program to put defensive shooters in a bad light if they don't carry some sort of first aid supplies as well as a gun.
     
  11. Djs105

    Djs105 Loaded Pockets

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    If it got to the point where you shot dude while getting your groceries, it would be ill advised to go near him until the Calvary is there, after all, you were in such fear a moment ago that you shot them. Seek cover, call 911 and be prepared to be proned out by the first badge on scene. At which point no one will be letting you anywhere near the person anyway.

    That being said, I have a pretty good trauma kit in the trunk of my car for myself, my family and innocent parties.
     
  12. Gary Gross

    Gary Gross Loaded Pockets

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    My FAK is not on my person but in a bag. Hence, not in the pictures. And I'm not a trained medic so it's fairly limited. My phone dials 911. That's my most important medical item.
     
  13. ArkansasFan30

    ArkansasFan30 Loaded Pockets

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    If I were to draw my concealed handgun and/or shoot someone with it I'm not hanging around to offer first aid. That's ridiculous. You're not a responder or credentialed "agent." Rather, you're a private citizen who should be in fear for his life. If this were so, you should be running away and notifying police. My role is not to "save" someone who I deemed of sufficient threat that I were compelled to discharge a projectile into their flesh. My role is to increase the likelihood of the survival of my family and self.

    I do carry a tourniquet and clotting sponge in my EDC bag. That bag enters the office and the home with me. I also travel with it. do not and will not lug it into stores, restaurants, etc. My principle purpose in carrying the anti-exsanguination gear is that I make a living as the primary provider to mentally ill persons. An active shooter (stabber or hacker) is something I concern myself with on a near hourly basis.
     
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  14. thegrouch314

    thegrouch314 Loaded Pockets

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    I think people who don't carry a FAK must be both very confident that they won't miss and hit a civilian AND that they can take down the shooter before the shooter shoots a civilian.

    I don't carry a gun, I never will, but if I hypothetically did, I would absolutely carry a FAK and be trained in how to deal with a GSW. I think it should be a legal requirement that in order to carry a firearm, you also have to carry a FAK and know how to use it
     
  15. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    I have FAK's, including modules for gunshot wounds, in my house, car and range bag. When I go hunting I also carry one. However, if I throw a pocket pistol in my gym shorts to run down to the grocery, I do not feel obligated to always carry the FAK from my car in with me every time I carry the gun. If I need to shoot someone in the grocery, I can always stuff my shirt in the wound and improvise a TQ with my belt (provided I am not dressed in gym shorts). Is it a perfect situation, no. In a perfect world I would carry a Marine MEU and an ER doctor in my pocket to always be prepared for any contingency.
     
  16. Telstar

    Telstar Loaded Pockets

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    you already had (7) responses... why did post the thread again?
     
  17. irl314

    irl314 Loaded Pockets

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    wanted to post it in both the guns and first aid forums, Its relevant to both and I wanted a variety of opinions for it
     
  18. ViennaGambit

    ViennaGambit Loaded Pockets

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    What about people who carry pocket knives?

    More deaths are caused by stabbings than guns worldwide. More homicides world wide are caused by knives over guns. This is a fact.

    Do you carry a knife? Do you carry a fak? Are you trained in how to treat stab wounds?

    Even more deaths are caused by automobile crashes - should everyone who gets a driver's license get certified training in how to deal with auto wrecks?
     
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  19. ViennaGambit

    ViennaGambit Loaded Pockets

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    And for the OP who felt the need to repost in multiple sections possibly because didn't he like the responses he was getting - here is my response in the other identical thread:

    "If you think after a shooting you will have the ability to provide aid in anything resembling a somewhat meaningful way, between the adrenaline and shock, you have another thing coming.

    I am also willing to bet that 99% of the people who EDC a tourniquet have zero training in how to actually apply one. You can do serious damage if not applied properly.

    Further, crouching over someone you just shot with your gun out in an unavoidable stafte of shock is an easy way to get yourself shot or :censored:ed up by the responding LE.

    Lastly, in a self defense scenario you don't shoot to hurt - you're not going to just shoot them in th e leg as a warning. Anyone who is worth shooting once, is probably worth shooting a few more times... thus rendering a TQ obsolete :)

    Seriously though, this seems like nothing but trolling."
     
  20. AlteredMentalStatus

    AlteredMentalStatus Loaded Pockets

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    Rule #1 of any medical situation: scene safety for yourself

    I shoot someone, in fear for my life, who moments before wanted to do me and others harm; scene is not safe just because that person is wounded. Scene is safe when LEOs controls the situation completely and tell me it is safe. In California, I am not legally required to render aid off-duty. There are plenty of EMS people on-duty to do that.
     
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