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EDC for Church

Discussion in 'Where, When, & How Do We Carry All This Stuff?' started by porkchop, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. M24shooter

    M24shooter Loaded Pockets

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    Why wouldn't you carry to church? A lot of EDC stuff would be just as useful in a building with people in it that were there for religious reasons, just the same as if they were in a building for commercial or recreational purposes. A lot of the tool, repair, light, and even minor first aid things fit in at church the same as they do in an office or on a bus. I don't carry my laptop bag and everything else, but my pocket contents are pretty much the same as if it were any other day. I don't carry my office keys unless I have to go by the office for something.
    As far as carrying a sidearm, same logic applies.
    Churches are open to people. People have personal failings. Sometimes that leads them to do not-so-nice things. In addition, some people have decided to target religious gatherings, for whatever reason. Wedgwood Baptist Church was a rather large shooting nearby to where I live. Google will find many, many cases in the US of shootings at churches. Those are still rare and unique, but they do happen. When it comes to my family I'm more worried about the stakes than the odds.
    If you want to think that just because I may be involved in a religious activity I am supposed to present an undefended target to a potential aggressor or stand idly by while someone may do harm to another innocent person just because they are involved in the same all under some kind of misguided and mistaken concept of total passivity, you're wrong and I see absolutely no basis to do so in my religious teachings. If you get that message from yours, I'll accept that.
    A shepherd's crook was for more than just an interesting prop to add some quaintness to an Old Testament illustration: it served a purpose of defending the flock.
    I understand those that don't chose to carry in church, and that is fine with me. At the same time I would like the exact same consideration back.
    I'm not going in to church loaded for bear, but I'm not completely disarmed either. Part of this is admittedly because of my line of work, but I can completely understand a private citizen being armed at church.
     
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  2. M24shooter

    M24shooter Loaded Pockets

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    You have a logic fault. You establish only two possible reasons to carry to church.
    So does your argument not then extend the power or grace of God to locations outside of church? Why would the power of God and an individual's faith only apply to the physical premise of church? Does God's power not extend to the remainder of the world?
    Here's a very incomplete list of church shootings just going back a few years. As I previously posted I currently live near the location where one of the larger shootings took place, and I worked with a guy who shot one of the actors in one of the other shootings below.
    Were these shootings some kind of paranoid delusion?

    February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men
    walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened
    fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir
    was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-
    year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.

    March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe
    Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church,
    and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several
    church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to
    capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed
    himself, but survived, when his gun jams.

    July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire
    in a church during a youth performance, killing two people
    and injuring seven.

    Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five
    wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary
    school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado
    Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a
    guard.

    May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police
    and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a
    Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
    police officer.

    Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational
    Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the
    pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

    May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of
    Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who
    were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was
    abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church
    pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
    25, was the shooter.

    Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary
    Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who
    reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
    later killed himself.

    April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old
    airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once
    worked as a security guard.

    March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of
    God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on
    the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before
    taking his own life.

    July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers
    Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff
    Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer
    after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

    Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at
    the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine
    -hour standoff.

    Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME
    Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the
    church while preparations are being made for service and
    shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

    June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine
    monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot
    four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two,
    before killing himself.

    March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace
    Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental
    patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a
    parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

    May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak
    Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford
    stood up in the middle of a revival service and began
    shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her
    and a woman trying to help her.

    Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist
    Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead
    seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by
    Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before
    killing himself.

    April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family
    History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70,
    with a history of mental illness, entered the library,
    killed two people and wounded four others before he was
    gunned down by police.

    2010, Jan 23 -- Woman killed at church parking lot, at St. Dominic Church in Youngstown, Ohio.

    2009, Dec 11 -- Man killed at funeral services being held at the New Hope Missionary Baptist Church in Portland, Oregon.

    2008, Nov 23 -- Multiple people killed when a husband crossed the country to kill his wife, at the St. Thomas Syrian Orthodox Knanaya Church, in Clifton, NJ.

    2008, Mar 21 -- Police investigators search for a suspect and motive in a shooting that left two people wounded outside a Suitland, Maryland church where the victims had been attending Bible study.

    2007, Nov 4 -- Gunfire erupts at Dorchester's Holy Tabernacle Church in Boston, injuring one.

    2007, Mar 11 -- Woman shot and killed by estranged husband while walking into church, at Acts Full Gospel Church in Oakland, CA.

    2006, Oct 2 -- Although not at a church building, the attack in Lancaster County, Pa., by a gunman who killed five girls and then himself at an Amish school targeted a religious site.

    2000, Nov 1 -- The wife of a minister at the Eagle Heights Baptist Church & Christian School, in Kansas City, MO, decided to kill her daughter (for "rebelliousness") and then herself.

    1999, Jul 4 -- One person killed in a shooting at the Koren United Methodist Church in Bloomington, IN.

    1999, Mar 11 -- Three killed and four injured as a family dispute erupts at the New St. John Fellowship Baptist Church in Gonzales, LA.

    Christmas Eve 2009 in Little Rock.
    Salvation Army major shot dead in Arkansas on Christmas Eve

    I am a believer. Have been for some time. However I did not see one instance of the power of God descending from above and smiting the bad guy before the homicides were committed.
    I fully understand and accept that the argument could be made that God's power through other means stopped the assaults in some way, but in the cases above there were still deaths. I'm not someone so naive to say that because there were deaths a loving/caring/righteous God could not exist, but I am also not so naive to think that a blinding blue flash of awesome from above is going to prevent every turd walking the streets from harming another person.
    So please, have a little more of an open mind to those who chose to be a little more prepared than you do and don't dismiss them as paranoid or faithless. I think the list above should provide you with ample reason to accept that there may be more than your simple and limited choices.
     
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  3. iacchus

    iacchus Loaded Pockets

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    My mom alwys said, "the lord looks after those who look after themselves".

    Not the most philosophically sound theological statement, but I caught her meaning.
     
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  4. M24shooter

    M24shooter Loaded Pockets

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    Agreed. Furthermore, their is more than a little reference to defense of self and others in scripture. I don't get the "I'm a Christian and as such totally passive" philosophy.
     
  5. bpa

    bpa Loaded Pockets

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    Perhaps this comes from the Golden Rule - do unto others etc?

    Metal detectors at the doors would significantly reduce the problem without the need for gunplay in sacred space. As President Reagan said (albeit in Russian) "Trust but verify."
     
  6. thatotherguy

    thatotherguy EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Without stepping on my soapbox, getting preachy, or getting denominational, I'd like to say that while God offers salvation to those that believe and do good works, He also gives humans free will. That free will enables us to do things that are unholy, are evil, if we do not resist those temptations; including, heaven forbid, homicide in a place of worship.
    At the end of the day a church is a building no different from any other building; it is not inherently holy, nor is it inherently protected from the evil effects of free will on a demented mind. What makes the building holy is the Church within it, meaning the congregation of believers. Whether that congregation is in a truck stop bathroom, a cathedral, or an open field, it is the same thing. And it is just as liable to be violated by a criminal as any other gathering or building.
    I carry the exact same thing in church as I do every other day. I just don't bring my bag along because I don't want to lug it around during the service.

    I hope I didn't overstep my boundaries on religious discussion with the preceding statement. I tried my best to keep my own beliefs separate from my stated opinions, but if I failed, mods, please delete or edit my post as needed to bring it in line with forum regulations. Thank you.

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  7. aphex2k

    aphex2k Loaded Pockets

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    Look as recent events have shown, you're not safe at a pop concert so I take back what I said in 2011. I'm not trying to diss anyone's faith or spiritual connection to their chosen Gods. Hugs all round. Don't mace me

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  8. Chad Johnston

    Chad Johnston Loaded Pockets

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    I wear the same thing (jeans mostly) as I do during the week so nothing changes.
     
  9. thatotherguy

    thatotherguy EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Man oh man... I didn't pay attention to the date of the last post before I posted. I assumed it was a fresh thread since it showed up in tapatalk. Sorry for the zombie thread, all.

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  10. Gary Gross

    Gary Gross Loaded Pockets

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    Funny I actually read this thread from the beginning this morning and then it shows up in my feed this afternoon. I wear pretty much the same thing to church as during the week. I work in an office so it's dress clothes M-F. What changes is my backpack stays in my car. I carry a Maxpedition Incognito Quad for my tablet, water bottle, extra mags, etc.

    I also carry one of my trusted sidearms IWB. My pastor keeps his pistol locked in his vehicle. He knows that I carry (although the other deacons all have firearms but don't carry at church) and will do whatever is appropriate and necessary for the situation.
     
  11. kensington

    kensington Loaded Pockets

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    7 days a week, same thing for me, LAPG Operator Short/Pant with a t-shirt. If I am working safety at church Sunday morning I throw on a polo and jacket, now that I am on the safety team I get to carry at church so my load out is exactly the same as it is the other 6 days of the week, I like it that way, consistency.
     
  12. dmattaponi

    dmattaponi Loaded Pockets

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    Old thread, but a good one. Glad to see a lot of commonsense answers. I carry the same stuff to church as I do anywhere else.
     
  13. baccar-3

    baccar-3 Loaded Pockets

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    The same stuff I carry all the time except I wear my paracord jewelry.

    [​IMG]braceletringlanyard by ?, on Flickr
     
  14. bindibadgi

    bindibadgi Loaded Pockets

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    Ha! I clicked to read the thread, thinking it could be interesting. Turns out I was the first response to the OP years ago. My EDC has changed quite a bit since then.

    Now I've got:
    - iPhone 6
    - handkerchief
    - only one space pen
    - All-Ett sports wallet
    - All-Ett coin pouch (the roo scrote was stolen years ago)
    - brass fidget spinner
    - thumb drive
    - brass belt hook/bottle opener (yes some of my church buddies and I do drink - and brew)
    - brass AAA flashlight
    - Vic Rambler
    - Spyderco Roadie
    - house key tucked in the wallet

    I seem to like brass...




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  15. bindibadgi

    bindibadgi Loaded Pockets

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    Oh, I forgot the watch. It seems to change from week to week, but right now it's a (you might have guessed) brass Ventus dive watch.


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  16. thegrouch314

    thegrouch314 Loaded Pockets

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    I'm another Church in jeans guy, when I go which isn't all that often lately, so it's just my regular edc
    Unless I'm wearing cargo pants in which case I take my notebook out of the shin pocket because it hurts to kneel on
     
  17. Jabez Branderham

    Jabez Branderham Loaded Pockets

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    At work, it's business casual, so I wear the same to church. I carry pretty much the same stuff - gun, knives, etc.

    We were having fellowship at the parsonage one night after church, when the power went out. Handy to have my flashlight in my pocket.
     
  18. Barend Strauss

    Barend Strauss Empty Pockets

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    For church not much,cell ,wallet , ZT 0450 knife and some money.
     
  19. Karmakanic

    Karmakanic Loaded Pockets

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    It sometimes seems that some fancy footwork is required to sidestep the Ten Commandments.
     
  20. Gary Gross

    Gary Gross Loaded Pockets

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    Meaning??

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