1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

Dull lume?

Discussion in 'Watches' started by crazysgt, May 1, 2017.

  1. crazysgt

    crazysgt Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    150
    Need some input fellas, recently picked up a Luminox Modern Mariner 6250, new from retail store. Seems to me the tritium is weak or dull. I dont know, my other lum-watches are much brighter, they can even be seen in the daylight. But not the Luminox.....opinions?
    [​IMG]

    In total darkness. Sorry for crap pic...Galaxy S8+ is supposed to have an "awesome" camera.

    [​IMG]

    A more normal photo.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by crazysgt, Jan 14, 2018
    #1 crazysgt, May 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  2. Mark9117

    Mark9117 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2016
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    406
    Can not speak from direct experience but...

    That's not lume per say, it's Tritium, which you probably already knew. Once upon a time, I was shopping for Tritium watches and I read a lot about how weak Tritium looks compared to traditional lume. The kicker is that Tritium casts a low-level glow for years while lume wears out much more quickly. Lume also has to be charged to work where Tritium does not.

    I think that's just the way it is.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  3. crazysgt

    crazysgt Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    150
    Thanks for the quick response. I have another tritium watch that seems much brighter than this one. Maybe I am just accustom to the traditional lume in my other watches. Using my eye, I barely can tell the difference between the green lume and blue. Shows up well on the camera though. Once again thanks.

    Separately, any camera gurus that could share some knowledge on why the "newest, best cell phone camera" sux in low light could chime in with some help....much appreciated.
     
  4. Narcosynthesis

    Narcosynthesis Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Without being able to compare the watches (your photos are not showing up right now) it is hard to say anything for sure, but as with many things, a lot can depend on which version of tritium markers have been used - different colours will give vastly different outputs, as will using different sized vials - so if you are comparing a watch with large green markers against one with smaller red or blue markers, a difference is to be expected.

    They do also dull with age - I believe dimming to around 50% output after 12 years. This isn't something I would expect to be an issue with a new watch, but worth noting if one is secondhand or notably older.

    And yes, you can only really compare tritium with tritium, as it is by nature a lot lower output than a traditional 'glow in the dark' type lume - compare a tritium watch against a Seiko 007 and you will be pretty disappointed (until 4am when you can still see the tritium nice and clearly at least), so it is worth remembering this if you are switching and comparing different types of watch.

    As for the camera, it sucks because you are just stretching it beyond the practical capabilities of a phone camera - something designed to be compact and portable, which comes with many tradeoffs. If you are comparing your images against those you have seen online, remember you are likely comparing against setups specifically designed to shoot these photos - cameras with large sensors that will cope with low lighting better, long exposures to help further, tripods to give a stable shot and so on - features found in cameras aimed at photographers, but not really practical in a mass market phone...
     
  5. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    What's the production date on your watch? If it's not stamped somewhere you often can get it if you mail the manufacturer the serial number.
     
  6. Dingle1911

    Dingle1911 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    250
    I was thinking the same as Westerdutch. I wonder if you watch sat at the store for a while allowing the tritium to loose brightness.
     
  7. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    I have a couple of Luminox that are at least 20 years old and several newer Tritium watches and they are all about equal in brightness to my eye?

    I know they are supposed to decrease brightness with time but I have not been able to discern that it is happening and I have tried to!

    None are as bright as bright Lume but I can also ALWAYS see the Trit in the middle of the night and so far I have no Lume powered dials that will last that long?
     
  8. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    Newer tritium watches might very well have been built with old tubes or simply with 'lesser' tritium tubes. I honestly don't know how many different trit tube manufacturers there are in the world but if there's more than one it stands to reason that there could very well be different quality tubes (more/less actual tritium, more/less phosphor or different quality) and even coming from one and the same manufacturer different batches might be different in brightness.

    I you are not able to see a different in brightness between a 20 year old and a fresh tube (the new one being about 3 to 4 times as bright) then something is really wrong, the human eye is great at comparing different levels of brightness side-by-side.

    Marathon for example will always note production date and radioactivity on the back of the watches for this very reason.
     
  9. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    And my new Marathon JDD is about the same level as my Luminox Field Officer which is more than 20 years old,like I said.

    I look at them side by side in the middle of the night as I line them up to be ready to see with newly awakened dark adapted eyes and it does surprise me for sure.
    Maybe the 1/2 life of the Trit is not as they think?

    I know there are also 2 levels of Trit tubes now used for watches in general.
    All older watches and many current ones use the T25 tube where some newer higher end models use the T100tube and are advertised as such.
    I have yet to see any of these tubes in real life but they are said to be crazy bright compared to T25 tubes!
     
  10. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    The half-life of tritium is actually quite precise, keeping track of by-products and waste from nuclear reactors is is a fairly exact science. I dont think you would just happen to be the one person who owns tritium tubes that defy the laws of physics.

    Please let me know where you have read about these t25 and t100 tubes, that is a heck of a lot of radiation from a single vial for watch use. The ones used in watches generally are this sort of value combined. My tsar for example is a 26mCi watch so just coming in at the T25 rating in total.
     
  11. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    I am hardly suggesting anything of the kind,I am merely observing the perceived output of the different watches that I own and relating that.
    Clearly I am not schooled in the physics of radiation.

    T25 & T100 are just the name of the tubes as far as I know,I have no idea of that being a measure of any kind other than that the T100 are supposed to be a lot brighter than T25 tubes.

    Deep Blue is one maker using both and their website offers pretty decent examples of the differences although again I have not seen the newer tubes myself.

    As far as I know there is just one manufacturer of the tubes anyway? H3 I think just like it says on the dial of my Marathon and I am guessing on yours too.
     
  12. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    Ah well that makes sense, you read the t25/t100 on a watch website. That doesnt really say anything about the tubes themselves it tells something about the total amount of radiation stuff inside the complete finished product. T25 watches simply have 1/4 tritium contents of the T100 watches (rated at 25 and 100 millicuries respectively). The tubes are the same, just there's more of em. There could be bigger ones or higher pressure ones as well tho i dont think thye use that in watches but its not a T100 watch has some completely different technology is juts a case of more. Tritium is tritium. Its the third isotope of Hydrogen 'H' hence the scientific designation H3, its not a brand.

    The 20 year old and new watch you are comparing, are they the same colour or does the newer one happen to be blue?
     
    Last edited by Westerdutch, May 3, 2017
    #12 Westerdutch, May 3, 2017
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  13. crazysgt

    crazysgt Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    150
    [​IMG]
    If I understand correctly, the H3 means it uses tritium, and the LX/MBM is the manufacturer of the tritium. Ironically, I see no serial number?
     
  14. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    From what I have read there is a company also named H3 for what seems like obvious reason that manufacturers the tubes for all the watch makers period.
    They recently began offering watches themselves as well as I understand it.

    In talking to the guys that own Lum-Tec I was told that the regulatory hurdles you would need to jump to make the tubes have prohibited others from doing so and they decided not to offer Tritium watches if they could not do it all themselves in the end.

    All of mine are Green but I have been looking for a decent Blue or Red Tritium dial watch for a while and ran into this whole thing in looking for a new watch.

    Another company that offers mostly Red Trit is Armourlite as an example but Deep Blue has offered a watch with all three colors too I think,maybe Orange instead of Red and pretty busy looking for my taste too.

    I do like the T100 Deep Blue where they create the numbers with the tubes but they are tougher to find too.

    http://www.h3tactical.ch/h3-technology.html
     
  15. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    Also as I understand it the date on the back of the Marathon Watch is just the Contract Date on the Military issued units and not the Production Date as is assumed.

    I don't know about the Date Code on other brands.
     
  16. crazysgt

    crazysgt Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    150
    Well after looking at the warranty card(duh) it looks like after the serial number is an Ed. # of 09.10 I sure hope it doesnt stand for manufactured in 09/2010. If so I purchased a 7yr old "new" watch. Off to email Luminox for an answer.....will be back with an answer hopefully soon.
     
  17. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    It could also be that they purposefully fit old or simply less bright green tubes to match the naturally dimmer blue ones. However, if that 1GigBacquerel on the back is correct then the green tubes should have been new when fitted, so i don't really know how they would overcome the brightness problems.


    Please do let us know what luminox can tell you about the production date. 2010 should indeed mean that a bit of the brightness has faded by now but it should not be shockingly much (should still be about 2/3 full brightness).

    Please do some reading on how and when tritium is made. Its mainly a by-product in nuclear reactions. The H3 company is named after tritium, not the other way around.

    Please do take a look at ball watches, they also do the numerals from tubes thing and they are actually licenced to do their thing in the USA (importing tritium is difficult to the states).

    [​IMG]
    That's a mighty stunning design if you ask me.....

    Do keep in mind when going for blue vials that you get less brightness from them, red is even worse.
     
    xrayit likes this.
  18. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    7,105
    Sorry but I didn't spend enough time to say what I meant to.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mb-microtec

    This is the company that I meant to say was a supplier of Trit tubes all over the place,not H3.

    I am sticking by my assertion that my watches all have about the same brightness whether new or 20 years old,if you do not accept that then so be it.

    I have not represented myself as an authority of any kind about this,I just know what I see for myself.

    I also rarely have seen a Tritium tube watch that I didn't like,YMMV.

     
  19. Narcosynthesis

    Narcosynthesis Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    I think this is definitely worth considering - the brightness of tritium tubes is very dependant on colour - for example a blue or red tube will have a noticeably dimmer output compared to a comparably sized green tube, so it would seem strange for a watch to have bright green hour markers paired with dimmer blue hands. For them to purposely do something like using a smaller size of green vial would even this out, and also leave that piece with a lower overall output than many other watches with larger green vials.
     
  20. Westerdutch

    Westerdutch Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,647
    Likes Received:
    3,499
    My thoughts exactly, however if you were to fit 'lesser' or smaller green tubes you would never get up to the radiation numbers stated on the caseback, and this is one case where claiming higher numbers will actually not do your product any good (it simply makes it more difficult to import/export and the regular joe doesn't know what that number means anyways so cant be used for marketing). I really do wonder how they got the brightness equal on the different colors.