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Do you edc a iPad mini?

Discussion in 'Electronic Devices' started by MicroMike, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Moshe ben David

    Moshe ben David Loaded Pockets

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    I say yes. Think about it. Even with a dedicated GPS device like a Garmin, when you first power up the device will indicate 'searching for satellite' or something like that. Go through a somewhat long tunnel through a mountain or find yourself driving out in the middle of nowhere and the device will indicate 'lost satellite connection' or something similar. These devices must be able to connect.

    An iPad or any other mobile device without cellular connections is at the mercy of cell towers. Just not real-time sufficient responsiveness for GPS navigation of the likes we're accustomed to from dedicated devices.

    If you don't want to be paying charges for a cellular enabled iPad, stick with one of the dedicated GPS devices. They're not that costly plus there are no monthly data charges! And they are KNOWN to work. My Garmin is even able to search for businesses if I don't know the name but only the type of business.

    L'chaim!

    Moshe ben David
     
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  2. KLF

    KLF Loaded Pockets

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    Remember those Google Maps cars that drive around every now and then? They actually collected WLAN network data also. iPad doesn't really triangulate anything, it basically asks mapping service where the this certain network is and then shows it's location on map as the spot where you are :) Usually that is accurate enough, especially if there is several networks around. Device doesn't need to connect to any of them, it is enough if it sees them.

    GPS satellites work with phones and tablets just the same as standalone devices.

    You are being missled on the AGPS system. It doesn't ping any cell towers, neither it does triangulation. Just like dedicated units at cold boot, making a GPS satellite lock takes time. Dedicated units (and some sport watches for example) reduce this time with a certain file that is uploaded from a computer like once a month (usually when map data is updated). It contains pre-calculated coordinates for that area of the world, thus lessening the amount of GPS data that needs to be received from the satellite before lock.

    A-GPS does the same thing but instead of relying user to upload a file, device will just ask some data server "I'm connected to cell tower #12459876, give me AGPS data relevant to that location". When that data is received, GPS lock is usually achieved within seconds just like dedicated devices do. This function uses a minimal amount of data and operators usually do charge for it. Amount is much less than refreshing a single web page though.

    Actually, if you take out the sim card an iPhone or iPad will function just like a normal GPS would. AGPS function is lost, so the initial satellite lock will take time like a dedicated unit's cold boot would. Once satellites are found there is not much difference anymore. If the software works, though :)

    My phones and tablet are running now outdated TomTom software that does not need cellular data at all to work. I prefer it to the newer one because I like the user interface better. They don't make map updates for it anymore so I need to look for new software at some point though.

    Most modern navigation apps need live internet connection so they can get live traffic data (accidents, road works, traffic jams) and some even stream the map from the internet so it doesn't take any space on device itself.

    Point is there is no mandatory charges for owning a cellular enabled tablet. Just remove the sim card. Then it is like a wifi tablet but has a GPS chip.
     
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  3. EZDog

    EZDog EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I suppose I should have said "Calculate" instead of triangulate then but I think the idea is the same here.

    The original question here was do I need a cellular equipped iPad for accurate GPS use and the simple answer seems to be yes as only the cellular iPad have built-in GPS receivers.

    Although the WiFi iPad can run GPS software through WiFi network connections they obviously can not where there is not WiFi available for them to use and this is a lot of places on the road in my experience.

    Further my experience is that a dedicated standalone GPS just gives better real world performance on the road in the car overall and the dedicated Sat. antenna has to be more sensitive than the one built into a tablet from what I know about antenna and R.F. design.

    I carry both on all road trips and the Garmin on the dash is usually just better on the road and less distracting to me as well.

     
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  4. YankeeHotelFoxtrot

    YankeeHotelFoxtrot Loaded Pockets

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    lousy design, but understandable from an electronics POV. The radio circuitry is co-located

    KLF - you are speaking of the GPS almanac and ephemeris

    EZDog-I understand completely about antenna sensitivity; I don't need a 12-channel GPS Rx for car nav. But it would be nice to have a slightly larger screen size (I use an iPhone 7+) so that front-seat passengers can more easily see the display.

    I was just wondering.... do iPhones and cellular-equipped iPads use GLONASS as well as Navstar? I gotta go look that up.

    thanks Guys!
     
    Last edited by YankeeHotelFoxtrot, Mar 16, 2018
    #44 YankeeHotelFoxtrot, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  5. KLF

    KLF Loaded Pockets

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    From iphone 6s and up: A-GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and QZSS are supported.

    iPad air 2 has a-gps and glonass. Same apparently goes for the latest iPad. That indicates to me that phone and tablet versions do not share same radio chipset (I'm too lazy to really dig into this).
     
  6. YankeeHotelFoxtrot

    YankeeHotelFoxtrot Loaded Pockets

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    Thanks. I’d agree with that


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  7. mpi

    mpi Loaded Pockets

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  8. dml24

    dml24 Loaded Pockets

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    No tablet for EDC for me. The large screen Samsung +8/0 series or Note 8 have 90% of tablet functionality.
     
  9. jag-engr
    • Administrator

    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    By the time you pay for a data plan and then a device charge for the tablet, you're not too far from a phone plan, but you can't make calls. If you want to EDC a tablet, save money on the phone purchase. I recommend a second generation iPhone SE 32GB, which you can get for around $200. It is almost on par with the iPhone 7 in terms of hardware specs, but it just has a smaller screen. You can actually get an iPhone SE, Apple Watch, and an iPad Mini (or maybe the 9.7" version) for what the new iPhone X costs.
     
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  10. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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    iPhone SE is more similar to the 6S not the 7.
     
  11. Moshe ben David

    Moshe ben David Loaded Pockets

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    I basically agree with you. But I can't help but wonder if VOIP 'might' work if one had a strong internet connection...

    L'chaim!

    Moshe ben David
     
  12. garza

    garza Loaded Pockets

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    I use Google Voice with my iPad which is the scenario you are describing since Google Voice is a VOIP product. I have had no issues.
     
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  13. speedy

    speedy Loaded Pockets

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    Yeah that will look good on your hip. Why? Just keep the iPhone and if you really want to use the mini in your travels you can use your iPhone for a hotspot. Too funny use the mini instead of a normal size phone.
     
  14. JeffinCA

    JeffinCA Empty Pockets

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    I started EDC'ing an iPad 9.7". My iPhone is a work phone, so I get all my work email there, and work-related tools. My iPad is for my personal use for reading forums, news, FB, bible study, podcasts, etc. When I'm out and about and think I'll have time to read, then I carry the iPad in a smallish sling pack along with a charger, sunglasses, mints, pen, etc. My eyes are really failing me so reading on my iPhone is pretty tough lately even though its a 7+, so I carry a pair of readers too :)
     
  15. Lateck

    Lateck Loaded Pockets

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    I EDC a Samsung S3.

    Lateck,
     
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  16. KLF

    KLF Loaded Pockets

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    Latest leaks still claim no iPad Mini refresh coming... :( The news part in that is the iPad Mini was even mentioned.

    Last couple of weeks I've had a really bad flu, so my best friend iPad Mini 2 has stayed with me and I've read like 6 or 7 Jack Reacher books in two weeks. Pretty much unable to anything else remotely useful.
     
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  17. KLF

    KLF Loaded Pockets

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  18. KLF

    KLF Loaded Pockets

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    aaaannndd... BOOM. IT IS HERE.

    www.apple.com/ipad-mini/
    Same small size, now with a powerful cpu and even apple pencil support. Considering I actually bought regular 9.7" iPad 2018 just two months ago, I might wait a little bit... but I need to have one soon.

    Apple also released a new iPad Air, with a 10.5" screen I guess it uses old iPad Pro chassis and display.
     
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  19. Abhi Beckert

    Abhi Beckert Empty Pockets

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    iPads do triangulate - they use signal strength to guess distances and with at least three wifi networks then it can be very accurate (though building walls throw a spanner in the works, they can absorb or amplify the radio signal).

    Whenever an iPhone or iPad can without draining the battery (especially if the required hardware is powered on for other reasons), they gather data on wifi signals and cellular tower signals, including signal strength for both, combine that with GPS coordinates if available and record it to the local device. Exactly the same as Google's mapping cars.

    Next time you charge the phone overnight it's reported anonymously to Apple. To protect user privacy the device does not report frequently visited areas (home, work, etc). They also fake some of the reported data creating "reasonable doubt" of the accuracy meaning it cannot be accepted as evidence for a crime (the system can handle incorrect data since radio signal strength is inherently unreliable).

    On top of that they do purchase data gathered by other companies, but not very often these days now that they have over a billion devices actively gathering data.

    Apple also has their own network of cars, aircraft and people on foot with heavy backpacks gathering data — currently operating in 11 countries.

    Real time traffic data and estimated travel times in Apple Maps operate via a similar system and they also use it to find errors in the map data (if the map says no left turn, but people are turning left, they send an employee to check if the signs were changed).

    How accurate all of this is depends on Apple's marketshare for your city.

    Also this data is used to "assist" the GPS location algorithm. GPS was originally designed for warships - it struggles with interference from buildings / trees / mountains; it uses a radio frequency ideally operate with a very large antenna; it's supposed to be powered on permanently rather than intermittently as we use it on phones; and it uses a lot of power for a small battery. So even on devices with GPS, wifi and cellular triangulation are still used every time it does a location lookup. For low power lookups GPS will be ignored completely.