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Discussion in 'Handguns' started by HOMELAND SECURITY HAM, Feb 16, 2010.



    Having been a police officer (and a retired Sergeant) for 30 years, take my advice on this one!!!!!

    I was just approached by a long time friend, who attempted to proudly show me his new "CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMIT HOLDER" badge.

    When I told him to lose it, he was initally shocked. The advertisement he read for it and the recomendation that he got to purchase it from an instructor, led him to believe that he was proudly able to distinguish himself between the good guys and the bad guys. He was so excited to advise how if he had to have any involvment with his gun and permit, law enforcement would now know that he was not the bad guy.

    It was a shiny new gold badge that if properly viewed, would not in any way imply that he was a law enforcement officer.

    I explained my involvement with these and other badges that people carry, Even some silly ones that advise "designated driver" etc...

    My initial involvement with non law enforcement officers possessing badges, occurred when I was training a new officer.

    We were conducting traffic stop training. The new (green) officer was stopping one of his first cars, for a Stop Sign infraction. I had gone over the sequence of events with the recruit and clearly thought I knew what he was going to do. Ask for the drivers license, registration and proof of insurance. The impressionable young officer was then going to explain to the violator the reason for the traffic stop and come back to the patrol car. We had not discussed weather a citation (ticket) or warning was going to be issued. I expected to discuss weather the violator realized what he had done, weather he was remorseful or not etc... when we were back in the patrol car.

    I assumed a back up officers position on the passengers side of the car and did not have a clear view of what my trainee was observing when I heard "I just wanted to give you a warning about passing the stop sign back there, have a nice day" and the recruit started toward the rear of the car without ever getting the violators paperwork.

    I was schocked, I asked what the heck was that all about?, as the car started to drive away. My recruit stated "its OK he has a badge in his wallet". I asked what the badge said on it and what the ID for the badge said and where the violator worked. The recruit stated "right you really expected me to check all that" I asked was it a police badge? His reply was "DUH of course".

    I stated OK rookie now hurry up and stop that same car again before it gets away. He couldn't believe me, we caught up with the car and stopped it again. This time I crossed over and had the recruit follow me to the driver. I inquired excuse me sir, but my trainee observed your police badge, I need to know where you work. With this the violator stated "I don't have a police badge". I then asked ok then my recruit is blind, where do you work?????? His response was "I am not working right now" the Q&A went on and on for a short perioid of time, with the driver being evasive.

    The long and skinny of it was that the violator was a terminated ex security officer. He had not returned an extra security badge he had taken from the company that fired him. He had no ID card. A representitive of that company responded within minutes took possession of the badge and not want to prosecute the violator. The violator got his Stop Sign citation and a few extras for additional viiolations he had committed (Registration not carried, expired proof of insurance and bald tires).

    The recruit admitted he only saw a "flash of the badge and was intimadated and was too frightened to confront someone that was probably more expierenced than he was.

    I have seen this routine over and over and usually it is with a "Concealed Weapons Permit Holder" badge. A department meeting confirmed that other officers (including expierenced officers) frequently do not persue a furtherence of identification after a "Flash of a badge" is observed.

    Additional training was done and this was found to have been a common occurrence, with the drivers (violators) sometimes even making proud comments like "its Ok, I'm a good guy also" and other comments with a flash of the badge during traffic stops and other citizen encounters, leading officers to believe that they were infact out with another Police Officer.

    I have come to find out while researching this topic that there have been more than a unbelivible ammount of arrests for "Impersonating a Police Officer for the mere possession of these badges. The charges are usually dropped by the state, however, the badge CCW permit and gun are taken (and probably returned to most at later dates), cars towed untold amounts of attorneys fees paid. This is all over badges that are not issued by the state with your permit. I will not comment on the arrests that I am not familier with as to what the badge holder did or stated to get locked up.

    However, all recient training I have gotten is to never give any warnings or breaks to persons with these badges. PERIOD!! The training is that all persons with these badges are potential Officer Safety Hazzards, as these should never come into view or be displayed by any law abiding citizen. Bad guys can get them from the rear of gun magazines. They can give an officer a false sence of security. They will probably get you detained at the least and your gun checked through teletype etc... My last training was to specifically "jack pot" (write every citation that you can no matter what) to CCW badge holders and to give the highest degree of respect to those that dont' have the badges. It is the position of most police officers and admistrators, that the mere possession of these badges is for the specific purpose of "to try to get out of a ticket" and that practice needs to be stopped swiftly. CCW Badge holders are to be told that all the extra trouble, expence and points on their drivers license was due to their posession and or display of their badge.

    Never lie if there is a gun in the car, be truthful, keep your hands in plain view and your permit close by but also not displayed. Abide by your state law if it requires disclosure of a gun. Also consider that all officers are not gun lovers and some are not 2nd ammendment friendly.

    I am an NRA instructor and a firearms enthuesiast, I usually just give warnings to honest CCW permit holders that are up front to me, so that I dont have to get into an uncomfortable position when a gun comes into play. I want to have and give the highest degree of respect to all permit holders and law abiding citizens. However I must admit I also subscribe to the philopsophy of the "trying to get out of a ticket" mindset. If I observe one of these badges I will give you a negative expierence you wont forget if I observe one of these badges on a traffif stop.

    Think about it, if you ever needed to use your gun, you might have been the bad guy, in a road rage incident or just used excessive use of force or brandished it inappropriatel. What ever you have gotten involved in, that badge will probably only get you in more trouble and you have no business trying to steer an officer into making a decision prior to making a proper investigation.

    Lord Bear Loaded Pockets

    dOH!..bruddah! I've been seeing badge offers in the backs of comic books since they were under a dollar each! Cereal boxes even. Mercenary and martial arts magazines.Learn how through our correspondence course, or any other idiotic promise from heaven know who. Anyone foolish enough to actually send away for a badge might as well ask for the decoder ring. Just my dos pesos. Thank you Ham for pointing this out.

    Lord Bear Loaded Pockets

    Homeland Security Ham you might just have saved a life or two! O0

    TempestV Loaded Pockets

    The first time I ever saw one of those CC badges offered, my first thought was "that's a bad idea". It also seems like something right out of a Gecko45 post. I mean seriously, how much more mall ninja can you get? It isn't anything official, so you carry a big chunk of metal that doesn't actually mean anything.

    Crude Loaded Pockets

    I think there are two problems here. First the one on the table, secondly the practice that a badge ( of any kind ) puts a persons actions above the law. :thumbsdown:

    TempestV Loaded Pockets


    ripstop Loaded Pockets

    ~well said ...

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets


    There are actually permit holders who think it's good idea to walk around with a "special" badge??

    A kid with a secret decoder ring, that I can understand. But an adult?? What the Hell?!

    As far as non-LEO badges go, I have one. But I work as a security guard. I wear it 5 days a week. But when I'm driving to work, I keep my uniform covered up with a light jacket. Same situation when I'm driving home. I wouldn't think of flashing it to a police officer during a traffic stop. It's gold and quite square. I always figured a police officer would see the shape, and not be amused. . .

    "Step out of the vehicle, Sir."

    Other than at the job-site, no one sees my badge. Besides security guards, I could understand a Private Investigator having one; if the state he works in requires that they be registered. Even then, it would be something shown to another civilian to lend an air of credibility before asking questions concerning a case.

    At a training session once, I noticed another security guard wearing his square badge around his neck, the way an LEO would. He looked like a freaking idiot.


    I am actually embarassed to say that the instructors that give some of the courses keep these on hans with badge walets and intimadate the students into thinking that not only is it a goood idea but a necessary one to distinguish the "good guys from the bad guys".

    These instructors stock up on these and add $20.00 a pop on to each student they can convince to buy one. It is a money thing over an honest thing. It is a sad time when you cannot rely on a firearms instructor to give good honest advice. That is why when others ask me where to obtain good information, I always tell them to make sure they check several sources for their info.

    I used to work at a pawn and gun shop (in the 1980's) and the owner refused to carry Raven .25 autos for years. The boyz in the hood always wanted a cheap gun. He did not want to sell guns to these charicters. After several years, of several lost sales per week, he gave in and did what the other local shops did. He sold them and they would only want 6 bullets so he sold them for $1.00 each. After a short while he commented that he had been a fool and his income was now up a coupple of hundred bucks per week.

    Well I guess "money makes the world go around".

    SF1 Banned

    I have a California Highway Patrol Press Credential, and while covering an incident, none of the officers had seen one or even knew they were issued. The all replied they had never seen one.

    Same goes for the local Sheriff's Office. I had a Deputy say it was news to him that the department even has them. They have been issuing them for decades.

    The CHP no longer issues them due to the budget.

    LAPD used to give the photographers an actual badge that said Press, or Photographer. This was years ago, and you can sometimes find them on ebay. Now it is just the thing with your photo on it.

    My company has gold money clip type credentials, made by the same company that the PGA Tour gets it's money clip credentials from. Since we deal with VIP's at the highest levels, the protection detail people love them (USSS, DSS, Capitol Police, Arnold's CHP detail.) Then they know exactly who the official photographers are for the photo-op and not media. I may have several people on the project, and each one has their name on it. If I forget to take it off it does freak people out as they think I am some kind of LE, as they do look like a badge.

    lordhamster Loaded Pockets

    Badges?... We don't need no... stinkin' badges!
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    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

    Great advice.

    I am not a LEO, nor do I play one on TV. Here's what I've been trained to do if stopped in my car while carrying. Pull over as soon as I can safely do so. Turn on dome light if it will help the officer see inside the car. Keep hands on steering wheel. Open the window completely when the officer approaches, moving hands back to steering wheel immediately. These steps stay the same with or without a pistol.

    Chances are that the officer will ask to see my driver's license. While the hands remain still, I will then say, "Officer, I have my license with me and I'll be glad to get it for you. You should also know that I have a permit and I'm carrying a pistol. What would you like me to do?"

    nbmaine2007 Loaded Pockets

    Don't do anything. Just give him your driver's license. I could see if he was going to pull you out of the car, but that's not likely to happen unless you've been drinking or something. If it's not a legal requirement to notify then, why would you want to even bring that into the equation? You're doing something completely legal.
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!

    I've heard advice two different ways here. Some say it's a good idea to let the officer know before he runs your DL and finds out that you have a permit. I don't have a CCW permit, so I don't really have any experience either way. There are plenty of LEOs and permit holders here. Perhaps some of them will weigh in on what tends to go over better with LEOs.

    Some states have a card that you can carry with your driver's license (not a badge) if you are a CCW permit holder. I can't imagine any LEO being amused at someone carrying a badge, though.

    solocanoe Empty Pockets

    well, I am glad to see - after glancing thru this thread - that no one seems to be recommending one.

    It's crazy you see these for sale so many gun mags! :evil:

    means people are buying them or the sellers wouldn't renew the ad! :(

    lordhamster Loaded Pockets

    I guess that depends on the state. Here in Ohio you are required to notify the police that you are a CCW permit holder even if you don't have the weapon with you!

    TempestV Loaded Pockets

    I was told by a cop not to tell the cop that you are carrying a weapon. It shouldn't even come up. You aren't breaking the law, and the fact that you have a gun shouldn't matter. In fact, in some areas, informing the cop that you have a gun can be taken as a threat, and the cop doesn't want to have to deal with that. If the cop asks, or if he is going to search you or your car, inform him before he finds the gun by himself, but don't tell him as soon as he pulls you over.

    RockyNomad Loaded Pockets

    Good advice chaosmagnet.

    I can't even tell you how many times I've had some bounty hunter stick a badge in my face like it means something(thanks a lot Dog). I don't think anyone outside of LEO should even be allowed to have a badge. There really is no need for it and it completely detracts from the official capacity implied by a badge. I don't even carry mine off duty because any experienced cop knows to ask for their dept issued ID and not a badge.

    ericb445 Loaded Pockets

    I have Always thought that Badges where a bad Idea, I have a buddy that is a repo guy that has a repo badge. He was showing to me the other day, I told him what I thought of it. I hate the CCW Holder or pro 2a bumper/window stickers and bumper stickers like "Keep Honking Im reloading". Just not a good idea. I just really dont think they help our cause.
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    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

    Some states have the legal requirement. Others don't. However, if you start reaching for your wallet and your pistol is exposed or prints through a little, it will make the officer far more tense and unhappy than if you let him (or her) know about it first. The cops I know recommend that you tell the officer about your permit and your pistol while your hands stay still on the wheel.

    I'd rather run the risk of spending a few minutes handcuffed in the back of a squad than run the risk of getting shot.