1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

Concealed Carry License opinions?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by darth_guy101, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    566
    The problem with that, one is a right and another is a privilege. Then you go back to how much of curbing one's right's is allowed or needed before they are no longer such?
     
    T.H.Cone likes this.
  2. hunter s gatherer
    • In Omnia Paratus

    hunter s gatherer EDC Junkie!!!

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    752
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Just goog'd "high school shooting teams". There are plenty. Of course the educational opportunity is only limited to team members, unlike sex ed which was mandatory for all. But CCW is a whole 'nother world of gunning. It's defensive, not a sport.
    I ccw. The state mandated training course is rudimentary; so you know the laws and can at least jump through the required hoops to get the license. Doesn't really elevate your training on how to handle the weapon in defensive mode or improve situational awareness. Private courses do that. That funnels carriers down to an even smaller population who really know what they are doing when ccw-ing.
     
    kd7dvd, kertap75 and T.H.Cone like this.
  3. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    566
    We have and in some places still do, it's called 4-H. It is still prevalent in many communities and it's not all about raising sheep and milking cows and being labeled a hick or redneck. Implementing a common sense program like this based solely on firearm education in the inner city would be great...but a pipe dream.

    We can't get the idea in our educators, parents and "experts" heads that physical education is needed and should be mandatory in every grade until graduation 4-5 days a week. There is no way in hell opponents to freedom and rights will sign off on any form of firearm education based curriculum.
     
    kertap75 and T.H.Cone like this.
  4. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    10,909
    Likes Received:
    90,881
    Plenty of schools built in the '50s and '60s had actual indoor shooting ranges in the basement.
     
    kertap75 likes this.
  5. cowsmilk

    cowsmilk EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,076
    Likes Received:
    26,575
    I wish I had an indoor shooting range in my house.:)
     
  6. cowsmilk

    cowsmilk EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,076
    Likes Received:
    26,575
    4-H! I hadn't thought of that. I live in a small town too (of course, I'm a city kid transplant, so I didn't automatically think of it).
     
    patientcero and T.H.Cone like this.
  7. DavyJ

    DavyJ Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    467
    Hmm, I'm not an American but the debate around gun control is certainly interesting to some of us outsiders.

    From earlier in the thread:

    This may be a naif comment but it seems to me that a lot of people spend a lot of time debating the fine points of the last part of this statement, and very little time arguing the meaning of the first part - "A well regulated Militia".

    Perhaps someone here (from the US) could elucidate how exactly all the gun owners are well-regulated, in such a manner that is not touched upon by things like CCW.

    Curious cat is curious!
     
    Cobra 6 Actual likes this.
  8. patientcero

    patientcero Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2013
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    566

    From the US. Supreme Court court case District of Columbia v. Heller

    "... the Court found that the phrase “well regulated Militia” referred not to formally organized state or federal militias, but to the pool of “able-bodied men” who were available for conscription. Finally, the Court reviewed contemporaneous state constitutions, post-enactment commentary, and subsequent case law to conclude that the purpose of the right to keep and bear arms extended beyond the context of militia service to include self-defense."
     
  9. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    10,909
    Likes Received:
    90,881
    In the simplest terms, it means something akin to "organized", it does not mean it "operates under a set of regulations (laws)".

    By merely using the simplest of logic,you can see that it can't possible mean regulations in the way we use the term today because it says "shall not be infringed" in the next line and, as we all know, a Right can't be regulated in the modern sense without it being infringed.

    It is abundantly clear what the Founders meant, if not for the poor performance of our educational system, we'd all know that.
     
  10. T.H.Cone

    T.H.Cone I am senor Fluffy, hear me roar

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    10,909
    Likes Received:
    90,881
    Perhaps we should take a break and have a bit of entertainment.

     
    Kilted1 and Cobra 6 Actual like this.
  11. DavyJ

    DavyJ Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    350
    Likes Received:
    467
    Okay, wasn't really abundantly clear to me, and I do consider myself reasonably educated, and neither do these Rights pertain to me. Hence the confusion. Mind you.... in my opinion and interpretation of the words alone, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is clear insofar as it is a Right only to keep and bear arms. It does not speak to HOW those arms are borne. Which is why I asked. I thought the regulation part my have appended to the HOW of it all.

    Sorry if that all sounds ridiculous to our US friends (which I guess make up the majority on the forum), but if you have lived your life entirely without this kind of gun ownership it is a little harder to understand the passions of those that have.

    It was only a question. No intention of starting a riot!
     
    Cobra 6 Actual likes this.
  12. BubbaFett
    • In Omnia Paratus

    BubbaFett Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    3,278

    I don't think you were being jumped on. The failure is in OUR educational system I how I read the response above.

    I've read where the actual phrase you pointed out is cited as part of the trouble in these discussions (on a national level). Did not know about that court ruling myself, glad to now.
     
    Cobra 6 Actual likes this.
  13. TARFU
    • In Omnia Paratus

    TARFU EDC!!!!! Junkie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    4,255
    Likes Received:
    2,732

    Mine did in PA. I was a member of the H.S. Shooting Team and we practiced there.
     
  14. TARFU
    • In Omnia Paratus

    TARFU EDC!!!!! Junkie

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2010
    Messages:
    4,255
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    Just because a lot of people say stuff on here but you never know if it's true...

    That handsome devil in the back row, far left is your's truly. ;)

    [​IMG]


    I'm shooting from standing position in the photo in the bottom left corner (the shooter in the back) with my Anschutz target rifle. We had a near perfect season and I was the #2. I think we had consumed too much caffeine and sugar before that match against Cumberland Valley. I shot like crap that night. We redeemed ourselves later in the season and shot them right out of the range. :D

    [​IMG]

    I just checked the website for my High School. The shooting team is still alive and well. Very cool!
     
  15. 11C1P
    • In Omnia Paratus

    11C1P Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    465
    Likes Received:
    482
    The only problem with requiring anything before being able to exercise your rights is then they can restrict who is allowed to meet the requirements. Like with "may issue" permits. You have to state a reason why you "need" to have a gun, and if they don't like it, NO GUN FOR YOU! Make gun ownership classes rare, expensive, hard to pass or whatever and it's NO GUN FOR YOU!
     
  16. bull_paqqy
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner
    • In Omnia Paratus

    bull_paqqy EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,499
    Likes Received:
    4,230
    I worked with an idiot, that use to shoot guns into phone books in his house. :eek:
     
  17. MKram

    MKram Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    194

    Good way to build up lead in your bloodstream. Our indoor range exhausts and replaces the air in the building around every 30 seconds or so. Gets expensive to heat in the winter, but cheaper than reducing your mental capacity.
     
  18. cowsmilk

    cowsmilk EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,076
    Likes Received:
    26,575
    Yeah...that's not what I had envisioned.
     
    SAKplumber likes this.
  19. Gollum24601

    Gollum24601 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    604
    Likes Received:
    506
    The presumption of innocence. Everybody gets that right? The govt is good about that. I mean look at Richard Jewell. Benefit of the doubt right there. Ruined his life not even one apology.
     
    SAKplumber likes this.
  20. SAKplumber
    • In Omnia Paratus

    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    29,783
    Likes Received:
    107,171
    This is the way I read it...The part about the Militia "being necessary to the security of a free State", is after a comma...in fact separated by commas at either end, and therefore a description of the need for the Militia. It is a description explaining why Militia is needed. If you understand now why a Militia is necessary, then remove that description from the sentence.
    Then you see that the sentence needs one comma, as the grammar is not present to connect the two parts of the sentence. (note that it doesn't say "and the right of the people...")
    It would then be written as "A well regulated militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed".
    Thats saying that two separate things are the "right of the people". The people have the right to a Militia (as it is needed for the security of the Free State), and the right to bear arms.
    Period.
    The grammar used when it was written didn't require the word 'and".

    I tire of arguments saying that the right of The People is to a "well regulated" Militia, as if to say, and often used to say exactly, that you weren't given the right to bear arms because you are not in a "well regulated" Militia.

    Well, in fact, I am.
    The Kentucky Militia is well regulated and routinely trains in many of the same types of exercises that the Military does.
    And in Kentucky, any able bodied man between 18 and 45 years old is considered a Member, ready if their Governor calls on them.
    Therefore, I am a Member of a well regulated Militia.

    I am not trained, but like any military, not all of its members are. You don't join the military knowing everything. There are always members who are at the bottom of the ladder that require training.

    Thats me. I know a lot of stuff...but not the Militia way. So to say that I'm not a ranking officer in the Kentucky Militia means that I have no right to arms to protect myself is ludicrous.

    Typically, when someone starts trying to tell me that, I ignore them. :p They are attempting to use their First Amendment right (which I'm protecting) to limit my Second Amendment right. Ironically without which, they would lose their First Amendment rights as any government would then be allowed, rather permitted, to take them away, thereby enslaving them...which is why the Second Amendment was written.


    That is all I have to say about that.
     
    Last edited by SAKplumber, Jan 25, 2014
    Lou_G, CSM-101, T.H.Cone and 2 others like this.