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"Cocked and locked" hesitation

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by kyguylal, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Trespasser

    Trespasser Loaded Pockets

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    It is entirely possible, it has been years since I read it.
     
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  2. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    My 1911 will work the safety off in one holster , but not with others . As far as the sigs they can be carried with a loaded chamber and the hammer down . The Sig ,colt, and kimber are more like the old stars . The 238 and 938 are a very safe gun


    Jake
     
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  3. shelbyfanss

    shelbyfanss Loaded Pockets

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    I was slightly hesitant of carrying cocked and ready to go the first time, but I also didn't have the understanding of firearms and basic safety procedures that I do now when I started carrying. I have always carried semi-auto pistols with a round chambered and the safety off. The key for me is knowing that my firearm is designed with internal safeties to prevent a discharge should any sort of trauma come to the firearm that isn't directly pulling the trigger. Meaning if I get hit in the holster, if I drop the gun if I throw the gun at a wall, whatever, the gun will not go off. Only the deliberate pull of a trigger will set the gun off. Now most modern semi-auto's have this feature, especially quality guns that are designed to be everyday carry guns. Then on top of that, make sure you put the gun in a Kydex holster that covers the trigger. With just those two measures in place you're pretty much guaranteed that your gun at least wont go off in your pants under any circumstances. It will have to be in your hands to fire, so that becomes a question of training. I wont get into that though, I would suggest formal training classes for that, at minimum a CCW class.
     
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  4. Brevard13

    Brevard13 Loaded Pockets

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    • He didn't necessarily make a poor choice. If he carries the Sig more than he did the revolver the he made a good trade. Please explain how cocked and locked limits the carry method because I am literally confused with that. I mean I have done IWB, OWB, and pocket carry with my P238 when I had it. His lack of confidence can be overcome with just getting used to the gun itself. Kind of like someone conceal carrying for the first time.
    • I wouldn't recommend him to go back to the revolver unless he is just so uncomfortable carrying the Sig that he leaves it in the case in a safe.
    • The same practice method could be applied to the P238. The difference with what you are considering his competency isn't whether he is competent or not with his revolver, but the fact that the cylinder bugged him while carrying it. It's two completely different things.
    • There was no injustice done with the purchase. You also typed P938, but I am assuming you meant P238 unless I missed something.
    • Like I said there is absolutely zilch wrong with the P238. If ballistics are any indication of performance the .380 isn't that much further off than a 9mm from what I have read.
     
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  5. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    I really wish right-side-only 1911 safeties were a thing. Well, a non-custom halfway affordable thing.
    If that story sounds familiar, it was a glock.

    There are also holsters that will force the safety on, such as Cook's p938 holster.

    My first reaction is to say that this is not the appropriate way to carry a 1911 or other SAO gun, but...I also apparently deactivate the safety on my USPSA SS gun before it clears the holster. So, all its doing is making up for the internal safeties that are missing on that gun (no FP block or grip safety).

    I would not carry C0 except for a modern striker gun.

    sent from a device with a keyboard that hates me
     
  6. Trespasser

    Trespasser Loaded Pockets

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    Searched to find the story again to make sure I hadn't gotten any other details incorrect. Hate to spread bad info because of a bad memory. ;) It was definitely a Glock 19. Thanks for keeping me honest.
     
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  7. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    +1 to everything Brevard said. Don't let that cowboy convince you that your pistol is any less venerable than his wheelgun. The 238 is a fine choice.
    To answer your question, yes it was an uncomfortable change at first but I got over it quickly. I think you will too. A P938 sits on my hip as I type this. I carried un-chambered, cocked, safety on for a few months. I did this mostly to prove to myself that the safety would remain engaged and that the hammer would not drop unexpectedly. Had to change holsters once cuz it did seem like maybe it could knock the safety off. Never did find the hammer down. If you do the same, take the time to develop good habits. The ante goes up with one in the pipe.
    Some tips:
    • Practice, practice, practice.
    • Develop muscle memory to disengage the safety when you clear leather.
    • When you holster the pistol, put your thumb on the rear of the slide and block the hammer. (in addition to the extra layer of safety, this also ensures the slide isn't knocked out of battery)
    • Obey the 4 rules at all times. Practice trigger finger discipline. Finger off the trigger. Booger hook off the bang switch.
    • Just because there's a safety, doesn't mean you can slack off on the 4 rules at all. The existence or even the engagement of a safety does not mean the gun is safe.
    • Get a good holster. If the trigger guard is covered, and you keep your finger out if it, even if the safety gets bumped off you'll be fine.
    • Avoid hammer down carry unless you have a decocker. I see no reason to decock my p938. Ever.
    • Practice practice practice.
     
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  8. Chimay

    Chimay Loaded Pockets

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    I would not hesitate to do cocked and locked. The safety is nice to have, but you should never ever accidentally test it. When you holster you can cover the hammer with your thumb, no chance of shooting yourself then. What you will need to do is change your habits to index the safety with your thumb every time you touch the gun. I brush the safety upwards every time I pick up my p238 to ensure it is on. Even when I draw to fire at the range I brush up as the gun is coming out and then down to disengage once the gun is in a safe direction. I don't wait for a sight picture the safety comes off as the gun comes up, trigger finger stays indexed down the side of the gun. Sight picture, finger on the trigger, and squeeze. When done safety back on, thumb over the hammer and holster.

    To echo another statement. The hammer on my p238 is never down. No decocker, so I'm not pulling the trigger to let the hammer down. Just me.
     
  9. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    This is quite a bit for a novice, lazy handgun carrier to digest MUCH less practice. Sig will end-up not getting carried.

    I'll revisit this thread in 6 months.

    OP, prove me wrong!:p
    If so, you'll be in the company of dozens that I have known over the years that simply didn't care for the responsibility. I'll understand if you don't ever respond to this thread.

    If you do prove me wrong, I'll consider it that I did have some influence in helping you accept that responsibility.:D
     
  10. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    Wait, when you draw you push the safety up, then down in your drawstroke? Who taught you to do that? I would try not to develop muscle memory to engage the safety as I'm presenting toward a threat. In fact my right thumb is disengage only. I use my off hand to engage or check the safety before it goes in the holster (or the safe). I do this specifically so that I don't develop that exact habit. Different strokes for different folks I guess (pun intended ;) ).
     
  11. Chimay

    Chimay Loaded Pockets

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    I do not engage the safety. It "should" already be engaged. Whenever I touch the gun (picking up to clean, to holster, to whatever), my thumb brushes upwards across the safety to ensure it is engaged. What I've found is, I do that when I draw as well, brush up just past it and then down to disengage. I'm sure no one would ever teach you to do that, but since its in my mind to check the safety whenever I touch the gun, its carried over to the draw as well.
     
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  12. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    :eek:
    Aliengear too.
     
  13. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    Gotcha. I generally do the same, just with the left hand, effectively keeping it out of the drawstroke. What you do is probably fine. Call it 'indexing' your thumb and the gun cognoscenti will nod along, lol.
     
  14. FenixArcher

    FenixArcher EDC Junkie!!!

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    Once you get confident with it, it's no problems.
    Heck, even if dropping the gun on the hammer a few times and smacking the hammer against a table a few times (unloaded, of course), helps you out, then go for it.

    Here's the thing, a cocked hammer isn't inherently 'dangerous', it just means your gun is ready to go at a moments notice like it should be.
    What IS dangerous is your booger hook on the bang switch.

    So, round in the chamber, cocked and locked, in a holster=no problem.
    Round in the chamber, cocked, and finger on the trigger=gun better be pointed at target.

    It's all a matter if proper handling, which if you often do correctly, then you will have no problems.
     
  15. kyguylal

    kyguylal Loaded Pockets

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    Thank you all for the responses.

    I've been carrying the Sig for about 18 hours a day so far with the hammer cocked, chamber empty. Haven't found the hammer down yet, which of course, is good.

    Been practicing dropping the safety on the draw each day. Working on finding a good holster.

    What has surprised me the most, is how little recoil the p238 has. Much less than my old bodyguard and much less than my .38 spl. Went through ~200 rounds of JHP of various assortments without any issue. Only problem came with a box of Tulammo steel case with a few ftf.
     
  16. Rizzle O

    Rizzle O Loaded Pockets

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    I had the same thoughts with my 1911. I just practiced carrying it unloaded with no magazine, hammer cocked safety on, empty chamber when I was at home. After a week of carrying it without a single incident, I got an iwb holster that covered the firing pin and I was good to go. I have a habit of checking my safety, and it has never clicked off on me.

    Sent from my HTC Desire 625 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Evil D

    Evil D Loaded Pockets

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    I'm new to CCW as well. I struggled with the round in the chamber for about 5 minutes. Honestly. All it took for me was putting my Glock in the holster and deliberately trying to get to the trigger (do this unloaded of course but rack the slide so it will dry fire if you're able to get to the trigger). I couldn't. Basically, if you use a quality holster, you have nothing to worry about while you're carrying. Once you draw it out, as long as you have trigger discipline you'll be fine. I will say this though, I have avoided putting a lighter trigger in my Glock because I like the added peace of mind that it takes a bit more deliberate force to get the trigger pulled. The Safe Action trigger just plain works...I figure since I can't even get to the trigger itself while in the holster, there's no way I'll get in there far enough to press the safe action safety in AND move the trigger too.

    But of course, this is still a different world than carrying a SA/DA semi like a 1911, the whole cocked and locked thing would make me nervous. I don't know if I could ever trust a safety that much..I was raised to call them "unsafeties" because they can fail. My attitude towards that type of safety is that they make you careless when it comes to trigger discipline because you get too comfortable with the idea that the trigger can't be pressed if the safety is on. With my Glock, I KNOW it will fire if my finger is on the trigger, so it's just added awareness to not touch it until I'm ready to shoot something.
     
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  18. chaosmagnet
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    chaosmagnet Loaded Pockets

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    1911-style pistols shoot in single-action mode only.
     
  19. JoeLiberty

    JoeLiberty Loaded Pockets

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    I agree with this and I carry cocked and locked. I do not trust the safety either. I use the same trigger discipline with my glock as I do with my P938 (SAO) and my CZ (DA/SA) and my rifle and every firearm I pick up.
    The fifth rule of firearm safety should be "No guns have a safety". That should be right up there next to "All guns are loaded". I 'know' it will fire if I touch the trigger the same way I 'know' that the gun is loaded. Always treat it as such.
     
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  20. Telstar

    Telstar Loaded Pockets

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    I have carried a Browning Hi Power (cocked and locked) for several decades. Never worried about it.
     
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