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CDC findings on gun violence

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by IThinkTooMuch, Dec 12, 2014.

  1. IThinkTooMuch

    IThinkTooMuch Loaded Pockets

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    Google "Rethinking Gun Control Surprising findings from a comprehensive report on gun violence" on Slate.
    *****************************************************************************************************
    The finding don't really line up with anybodies agenda, but it's the first solid data in over a generation. Maybe we (the USA) can get some effective, data backed, policy in place instead of relying on emotional rhetoric to dictate policy.

    1. The United States has an indisputable gun violence problem. - No kidding

    2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse.- Anybody who was around in the 80's and 90's remembers how nuts that era was. The elderly were being advised to carry extra cash so they wouldn't get beaten or shot by a dissatisfied robber.

    3. We have 300 million firearms, but only 100 million are handguns.

    4: Handguns are the problem. Handguns are used in 87% of violent crimes, and are preferred by criminals for their ease of concealment. - That a pretty strong correlation, and a good indicator where our efforts should be concentrated.

    5. Mass shootings aren’t the problem. - They're messy and attention grabbing, but compromise less the 0.2% of all gun deaths.

    6. Gun suicide is a bigger killer than gun homicide (61%) - We (USA) have a BIG mental health problem in addition to a big gun violence problem. This is also a good indicator where our efforts should be concentrated.

    7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals"

    8. Carrying guns for self-defense is an arms race. Pushers carry for protection against thieves, and against competitors who are likly to be armed. People not involved in the drug trade also carry guns for the same reason. Guns make the carrier "feel" safer. - Again a "No kidding" argument.

    9. Denying guns to people under restraining orders saves lives. - a 7% drop, while not earthshaking, is still significant.

    10. It isn’t true that most gun acquisitions by criminals can be blamed on a few bad dealers. "the share of crime gun traces attributed to these few [bad] dealers only slightly exceeded their share of handgun sales"- Another red herring tossed back into the sea.
     
  2. blacmud8

    blacmud8 Loaded Pockets

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    Interesting and pleasingly not absolutely one sided like so much polemic on guns over the pond. Thanks for posting.
     
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  3. JN01

    JN01 Loaded Pockets

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    The US has a VIOLENCE problem.

    There are no credible studies showing a causal relationship between gun ownership (regardless of type) and crime rates. People like to think there are simple solutions (if we just ban X, the crime rates will go down), but history has proven gun control laws to be ineffective for the most part. Thirty years ago, only a very few states allowed citizens to carry handguns for self defense. Today, all 50 states allow it, though in a very few states, it is virtually impossible to do so. In spite of that fact, the violent crime and homicide rates are at nearly 40 and 50 year lows respectively. In light of that trend, it is hard to see how reversing gains in self defense legislation would be helpful or even necessary.

    The problem is a culture of self that has little value for the lives of others and that sees violence as a normal, acceptable option. There is no easy fix for this, nor is any law going to solve it.

    Mental health issues are sometimes a contributing factor in violent crime as well as suicide. Again, not an area with easy answers. How do you determine who is a threat to themselves or others, and if you are not certain, where do you draw the line between forcing treatment to protect society and the civil rights of the individual?

    And like an arms race, unilateral disarmament (by law abiding citizens) is a bad idea. "Feelings" aside, assuming that the carrier is properly trained and knows the law concerning the use of deadly force, he would ACTUALLY be safer in a life threatening situation as opposed to being unarmed and fully at the mercy of his attacker. As far as criminals arming themselves, there is no honor among thieves (or drug dealers, etc). Not sure that anything could be done to change that fact either.

    I would be interested to see the data that would prove that the drop was due to that particular law and not other factors. If someone who has already committed a violent act (which led to the restraining order) wants to kill someone, it is hard to believe that the inability to LEGALLY obtain a gun would stop them from obtaining one illegally or using another method.
     
  4. odg

    odg Loaded Pockets

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    No, criminals are the problem.

    Let me make some minor changes to this quote to make it fit England:
    See what I did there? ;)

    So how do the English respond? By banning knives. Who complies with this ban? Judging by the number of stabbings in England, it ain't the people we want.

    [​IMG]

    This is what a disarmed populace looks like. Just stand and watch from afar while a madman has murdered one of your soldiers in the streets of your largest city in broad daylight. Why did no one intervene or, if they arrived too late to save the soldier, at least stop this scum from giving an interview while standing by the victim who lay on the street bleeding out? Because he and his fellow attacker were armed, and the law abiding were disarmed.
     
    Last edited by odg, Dec 12, 2014
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  5. Wishoot

    Wishoot Loaded Pockets

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    I agree.

    Violence is violence. A gun is simply a means to an end. If criminals don't have a gun, they're very good at finding other ways of wounding/killing be it a fist, knife, bat, bomb, ricin, automobile, airplane.... While handguns may be the preferred method as stated in the OP, they are very far from the only method.

    My Shield or LCP level the field a bit.
     
  6. IThinkTooMuch

    IThinkTooMuch Loaded Pockets

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    The article I cited contains a link to the original report from the CDC. All the data is in that report.
     
  7. odg

    odg Loaded Pockets

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    By the way, what makes you think the CDC is not biased? Lots of folks thought the IRS wasn't biased until we got all the excuses about the dog ate my hard drive errr the dog ate the server hard drives located many miles away and yes we have backup tapes, but there's no way any of the backups can be recovered . . . :censored: excuses ad nauseum trying to cover up . . . nothing, according to IRS officials.

    Assuming the CDC is not biased is akin to assuming the FISA court is not biased.

    Government employees have an inherent bias toward more job security (like everyone else), and for them, that generally means bigger government, as well as going along with the program. And the undeniable nature of government is to grow, much like an out of control parasite feeding on its host. Government employees getting in the way of that do not last long.
     
    Last edited by odg, Dec 13, 2014
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  8. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    Just read john Lott's data
    Jake
     
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  9. IThinkTooMuch

    IThinkTooMuch Loaded Pockets

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    EDIT: post deleted. You can take the data for what it's worth. I'm not teaching a pig to sing.
     
    Last edited by IThinkTooMuch, Dec 13, 2014
  10. FL Woods Bum
    • In Omnia Paratus

    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    I don't know. Read up on the National Medicine of Germany from 1918 to 1945 (and the "scientists/doctors" involved). Plenty of those Doctors and Scientists had an agenda. They used quite a bit of "Unbiased Data" to convince a nation of people it was o.k. to sterilize and euthanize folks to clean out the gene pool.
     
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  11. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    Well ohio went to ccw in o4 and crime has dropped every year . That must be bad stats too ;)
    Jake
     
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  12. Frailer

    Frailer Loaded Pockets

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    With the exception of the bias evident in the phrase "gun violence" as opposed to "violence" and the fact that I have no idea what number 8 is supposed to mean, have no issue with these points, nor do I find any of them the least bit surprising.

    I do, however, have one question: If an increase in the number of firearms in the hands of citizens and the *significant* increase in the number of citizens with concealed carry permits has been accompanied by a decrease in violent crime, and if the defensive use of firearms is both "frequent and effective" why does anyone think restricting the availability of firearms to law abiding citizens is a good idea?
     
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  13. odg

    odg Loaded Pockets

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    And a few years ago, you guys got restaurant carry, and the gun control advocates warned about restaurants and bars turning into the OK Corral. And of course, nothing of the sort happened.

    Last year, when the North Carolina legislature was debating restaurant carry, all the same tired, old, unfounded arguments were trotted out again. Nevermind that a majority of states have restaurant carry, and in none of those have the antigunners' dire predictions come to fruition. The facts hardly mattered. I watched the leftists in the NC legislature rehash those unfounded arguments, along with the help of the media.

    But we got that bill through last summer. In the 1 1/2 years since, no bloodbaths in restaurants and bars. Imagine that! :rolleyes:

    But wait until the next state considers it - the antigun contingent will start regurgitating the same nonsense. Sadly, the ignorant masses believe their :censored:.
     
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  14. Buckeye Jake

    Buckeye Jake Loaded Pockets

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    I couldn't count all the women that carry now ! But ohio has a no alcohol rule , that helps . And they allow to be ccw free . Any time I see the no gun sign , I call or email them wishing them luck , and find a new place . There is over 400000 permits out of 11 million buckeyes ! When I see a lady buy one it makes you smile . Most of them tell me that they feel better knowing they can defend their kids :)
    Its better than than having ol Joe bidden firing a shotgun up in the air !
    Jake
     
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  15. masiaka

    masiaka Loaded Pockets

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    You can put me in the "I dispute the gun violence problem" column.
     
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  16. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    One of the first things Obama did after Newtown, via executive order, was to task the CDC with researching 'gun violence'. This report was the initial result and is more of a survey review of previously published research than anything else. Unfortunately for the Antis, it is a balanced, professional review of the previous research and contains a host of points the Antis would prefer that we not know. As a result, it has never been mentioned by the Pres, Biden, Feinstein or any of the other leading Antis notwithstanding the fact that the report lays out a roadmapfor additional research.

    This is just the way our President rolls. Can't have real research, only hack jobs. It's no wonder that the CDC research has not gone beyond this initial survey report.
     
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  17. MTFatboy
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    I actually dispute the wordings of both of these. I agree that we have incidents of violence and suicide, and I agree that violence and suicide are problems of the human condition--problems to which I wholeheartedly support seeking a solution. To state that we have these problems in particular is to overstate the prominence of these problems. The CDC reports data on these problems in incidents per 100,000 people rather than percentages because they are too infrequent. Even 20 incidents per 100,000, which is a relatively high rate in the data set, is a ratio of 0.02% in terms of incidents per unit of population. The CDC reports that nationwide, from 1999 to 2012, we have had a rate of 10.36 firearm related deaths per 100,000 people per year, including crime, accident, suicide, and law enforcement related shootings. At 0.0136%, that leaves 99.9864 of us free to die of other things. Similarly, the suicide rate (from all causes) is 11.47 per 100,000 pop. or 0.01147%, and is not abnormally high in global terms. Using 2005 data from twenty-six countries, the Washington Post found us to be 18th of those 26, having lower suicide rates than South Korea, Hungary, Japan, Belgium, Finland, France, Austria, Poland, The Czech Republic, New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, The Slovak Republic, Iceland, Germany, and Canada. That doesn't mean that we should allow these things to happen if we can prevent them, but firearms are only the third leading mechanism inflicting fatal injury (behind motor vehicles and poisoning) in our nation, and all told, fatal injury itself accounts for less than 0.06% of the population. 99.94% of us leave our homes, go about our business, and return safely without any problem. It seems to me that to say we have a big problem is to imply otherwise.
     
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  18. astrocreep96
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    astrocreep96 EDC Junkie

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    Hello CDC...

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. nick nitro

    nick nitro Loaded Pockets

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    Food for thought. The FBI UCR code reportings...the Uniform Crime Report....that has been used for the past 40 years or better. Has been a part of every police report written by virtually any police or sheriff's office in the United States. Those UCR crime statistics still show that "hands, teeth, feet" are by far the cause of most injury or death. Way beyond firearms related deaths.

    So I'm all about banning those items without a permit to possess them...
     
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  20. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    If I had a bottle of 25 year old Pappy, I too would go to extremes to protect it:D
     
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