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Can anybody explain !!

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by kidkrylon73, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. kidkrylon73

    kidkrylon73 Empty Pockets

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    I need an explanation. This may seem like a bit of a rant but, why is it I have traveled to South American countries, European countries. Yet living in the US we have the most restrictive laws, rules on carrying medical supplies. I've been stopped traveling from Nicaraqua to Costa Rica with a complete medical kit including syringes, scalpels, novacaine, sutcheres. I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM EVEN WHEN QUESTIONED ! Yet In the USA.. Yes the USA, I have been harassed as though I am a drug addict. I do not understand if you are packing in remote areas there are necessities that one should carry. Why is it illegal in the USA to be in possesion of instruments that are necessary to provide emergency medical care. when immediate care may not be readily available.

    << Edited for Language by jag-engr >>
     
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  2. _jedi_

    _jedi_ Loaded Pockets

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    You are paying the price of over legislation to protect stupid druggies from themselves. Welcome to the Nanny Nation.
     
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  3. Kilted1

    Kilted1 Loaded Pockets

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    You might actually use it on yourself or someone else, thus denying the pharma/medical industry hundreds if not thousands of dollars of insurance billing.
     
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  4. kidkrylon73

    kidkrylon73 Empty Pockets

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    It Just amazes me how were supposedly soooo free yet, we are sooo supervised as though we are still using finger paint in first grade.
     
  5. Analog.Upload

    Analog.Upload Loaded Pockets

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    if you have the proper training on how and when to use advanced medical gear I do not see why you should not be able to carry it. however if you are just carrying it around pretending I could see issue with it.
     
  6. FrozenMuffin

    FrozenMuffin Loaded Pockets

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    The easiest way to avoid questions about the medical supplies you carry is to have some sort of EMT/Paramedic license. This way whoever is giving you a hard time will know you aren't just running around with a trauma kit for no reason. One thing pros don't like is someone who makes things worse because they didn't know what they were doing.
     
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  7. jegrundh

    jegrundh Loaded Pockets

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    FrozenMuffin has it correct, the problem is that people who attempt to do more advanced medical techniques but don't know how can cause a lot more damage then good. Take the restriction on allowing the "average joe" to carry a suture kit. Why is it illegal? because if a wound needs suturing it usually means its a large wound that needs to be cleaned out beforehand, which you can't possibly do in a non-steril environment such as being out in the field. Same with a lot of medications, there are contraindications for certain medications that the average joe wouldn't necessarily know, such as not giving morphine to an airway compromised patient because it'll decrease respiratory rate, etc. Just my 2 cents as an EMT
     
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  8. Kilted1

    Kilted1 Loaded Pockets

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    So you would rather have someone die in the back woods rather than get patched up, albeit inexpertly, so they can make it back to civilization and get taken care of properly. That's like saying only mechanics should be allowed wrenches because they might not be able to get the truck running again.
     
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  9. ac7ss
    • In Omnia Paratus

    ac7ss Loaded Pockets

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    Is there a restriction for an average Joe to carry a scalpel?

    I can understand meds (narcotics and anti-biotics) due to misuse. I can understand specific kits (trach and the like) as it is easy to foul it up. But isn't a suture kit just a specialized sewing kit?
     
  10. kidkrylon73

    kidkrylon73 Empty Pockets

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    Dont get me wrong I fully understand that with drug interactions and complications with using the wrong drug for type of injury could cause complications. But whether or not your properly trained. In some states you could be arrested for carrying syringes, or obviously a bottle of lidocaine. Whether or not you look like the typical meth head. I guess its like anything else. You might get a cop to let you slide for carrying a knnuckle duster or another cop may run you in as if your a danger to everybody in the immediate area for carrying such an item. What Im trying to say i suppose is that even if your carrying life saving supplies while camping or hiking in remote areas, you could get into trouble while getting there but if your already in the wilderness and you happened to get stopped theres an explanation for why your carrying such items. Its a 50/50 chance you could end up with the bracelets on. Sorry if thats a bit of a run on.
     
  11. elgie.l

    elgie.l Loaded Pockets

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    I think Kilted1 hit it on the head. It's our medical industry which sets it's main priority on mitigating symptoms with maintenance drugs rather than correcting issues. They claim to be protecting us but they're really protecting their business.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. vinniec5

    vinniec5 Loaded Pockets

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    the other big reason is those countries don't allow all the lawsuits you'd likely be hit with here. Even with good samartian laws the lawyers circle like sharks whenever liability finds a deep pocket or a pushover jury
     
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  13. jegrundh

    jegrundh Loaded Pockets

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    My main concern is people running around and doing dangerous things because they have a big boo-boo bag, but when something actually happens, they don't actually know how to use their kit. The other problem is that certain parts of a kit, if done improperly can seriously seriously injure someone worse, like say something that isn't band like a KTD, if not secured correctly can cause serious complications from a femur fracture. THAT mainly is my concern and why i believe some of the laws are there. Also the medical community and what is assumed as "good" practice changes drastically, you only have to look at CPR to know how much that changes. Or how now TQ's are preferred for systemic limb bleeds because of advancement in medicine. Things change, and people have to keep undergoing training to maintain certs for a reason. I know it's been said before, but someone who knows what they're doing and can remain calm-cool-and-collected is going to be 100x more effective then someone with a big trauma bag of goodies. Many many many things can be improvised in the backwoods, ie necessity is the mother of invention.Those that can't (ie antibiotics, etc.) usually have a reason why they aren't street legal (side effects, contraindications, etc.). I think a good question to ask is: "would i feel comfortable with someone who has no formal training doing this procedure on my son/daughter/wife/niece/me". For me, depending on the seriousness I wouldn't, especially not after teaching people wilderness first responder and seeing how wrong they are initially when they think they know what to do.

    All that being said, I think if you have the proper training and such, you should be able to have more things available, and I think some laws regarding "scope of practice" are :censored:, ie the difference between what a combat medic can do military side, vs. if he/she comes home to work as an EMT-B. And ultimately, at the end of the day, if it's a choice between saving a life and doing what's "medically legal" I know which choice I'll be able to live with at the end of the night.
     
  14. smellypaddler

    smellypaddler Loaded Pockets

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    I've never been questioned but then I haven't carried a kit into the USA before. The kits I take have loads of stuff that I wouldn't necessarily use myself. They are usually just sterile supplies to provide to medical aid should I end up in the arse end of nowhere and be faced with dirty equipment. In Vanuaatu they re-use all there bandages after steam sterilising them. Suction of newborns is a piece of O2 tube and someone's mouth and all syringes are re-used after cleaning. This is why I carry stuff I might not know how to use.

    I recently leant a kit to a colleague who travelled through Uganda. Unfortunately he contracted malaria and was sick enough that they told him he would die in the next 48hrs. Fortunately he didn't and was very grateful upon his return that I had given him sterile cannulas, giving sets, needles and syringes.

    Just because people carry all this stuff doesn't mean they suddenly become a menace to society and start practicing backyard medicine on everyone they know.
     
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  15. MedicInTraining
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    Your friend is very lucky that you gave him your kit! There are so many people I know who have HORROR stories about being subject to unsterile procedures overseas whilst travelling- including one who spent a month in a South American hospital after being an Australian nursing student for a year. She was absolutely HORRIFIED at the fact that they were reusing materials that had been in contact with other peoples blood on her!

    I've never had a problem carrying my kit here but I haven't tried to take it on an airline yet. I'll be taking a dumbed down kit on my flight home in a week or so, no sharps or anything but a fair amount of first aid supplies. There will be sharps in my check in baggage and I'm hoping I won't have any trouble with those :S If I do my explanation will simply be- I'm training to be a paramedic these are just my training supplies. I won't however be taking sharps of any description, checked or carry on, on my flight to the US in January. It's just not worth the trouble!
     
  16. nitrofein

    nitrofein Loaded Pockets

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    I think the main issue here is that you can't own or carry many of the items legally which I think is horrible. Just because you own the items doesn't mean you will be harming others or even yourself. I dare anyone to go out and try and buy a syringe. Its almost impossible if you aren't a diabetic. As a photographer, back yard mechanic a small sharp syringe is very useful for a variety of tasks that would be nearly impossible if the end was dull. In order for me to buy a syringe being used as a photography prop and later used to inject liquid into fruits and veggies for food photographer I had to give my drivers license to a pharmacist who had to make an "exception" and I had to fill out a sheet and sign my name next to my address. I would also like to note that I am a former combat medic in the army and have training on how to use most items but since I havent had the training in awhile I wouldnt dare practice much if any of what I know anymore. The point to me is that I should be able to use my judgement as to if I am competent enough to carry a medical trauma kit around. I may save my life or another life just simply by having the items, here's a scenario: A car crash happens right in front of me. I pull over and the person has a gushing wound. A doctor pulls over and takes over and then I offer my trauma kit. Now the experienced and knowledge doctor is on scene yet unequipped physically. So together the kit and doctor could potentially save a life. Almost everywhere you go you see defib kits on the wall so whats the difference between carrying something just as useful and having them in public. I think regulation on everyday items has gone way too far.
     
  17. MedicInTraining
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    Regulations are there for public protection from the 1% of the population who buy a fully stocked trauma kit and think that that means they have the inherent knowledge on how to use it! I would rather it be difficult for people to obtain things such as cannulas, giving sets and IV fluids than have John Doe pull up at an accident site where I am a victim and attempt to start an IV line just because they have the gear. Those of us who has purpose to carry such gear have ways to get the gear in the first place.

    However things like syringes and needles should be available anyway for your purposes. Do you not have a needle exchange program in your area? They're used here by diabetics, druggies and hobbyists alike- bring in old needles for safe disposable and get new ones in return or buy new ones
     
  18. Jesse Hall

    Jesse Hall Loaded Pockets

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    As far as IV supplies and drugs (lidocaine, epi., etc.), a prescription is required for them.

    As far as a suture kit I don't see why there should be any hassle for that.

    I keep a trauma bag in my vehicle, plenty of gauze, trauma pads, kling, ice, and some sterile water and saline.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. keeper
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    I've never heard of someone dying, because someone misused a wrench, I have seen plenty of people dying in the trauma bay, because they received inappropiate medical care before they reached a level 1 trauma center. The really scary part is that sometimes that very inappropriate medical care has taken place at the referring hospital. If the outlying hospital can't get it right, chances are a lay person with a great big boo boo kit or faux trauma kit, might not get it right either. I frankly would trust myself or family member to an EMT or paramedic, in a out of hospital situation, then a great many doctors. Doctors have become so specialized, that unless the docotor is a critical care physcian or ER physician, an EMT has better emergency skills.
     
  20. Kilted1

    Kilted1 Loaded Pockets

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    You kind of glossed over the main point there. I'm not going to disagree with you for the most part but you're kind of working on the assumption that someone is stable enough to make it to that trauma center or hang on until an EMT shows up. If so, then great! What about someone who is in the wilderness where help may be hours, not minutes away? I'd much rather be treated by an untrained bumpkin than not treated at all and die while the responders are still fueling up their ATVs.

    And yes, people do die due to misuse of wrenches. Improper repair of a vehicle can lead to breakdowns in bad places. Or the wrench could simply be used to beat someone over the head.
     
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