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Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by TimmyBoston, Mar 19, 2009.
Lol, welcome to our world when we want to buy from the US
Thank you for the reminder. It's all too easy to get carried away when someone suggests that only certain people should be qualified to oppose evil or wrongdoing.
I don't see where anyone has said anything close to that, only that perhaps more people would be more successful if they spent time to learn how to put the hurt on the bad guys while also increasing their own chance of surviving. I did post some actual examples of what has recently happened in my neck of the woods when people who were probably good intentioned had things go wrong in a big way because they got into a situation that was way over their heads. If that's what you're referring to, you didn't understand what I was saying. Sorry for that if it wasn't clear enough.
I've seen a lot of people learn the hard way that good intentions are fine but not nearly always enough. None of those people in the examples I listed had any idea of what they were doing and it ended badly for all of them and for others as well.
My point was not that people should stand idly by, or that they shouldn't be able to defend themselves, or that people should not be allowed to bear arms. Far from it. It's that they should at least learn the basics of defense and responsibility so that they all stand a better chance and also so there is a better chance that the bad guys get stopped before they get to do more harm. That doesn't happen just because someone buys something and thinks that's the end of it. Being able to successfully mount a defense is not learned by osmosis or by just having a sales receipt or even a permit. I'm only saying that it easily could have had a better ending for almost every one of those people. In the end only one bad guy got caught and the LEO's got him after he surrendered (by then he is accused of having killed two others).
Things usually work out better when people know what they are doing, right? I was just suggesting that while people can buy what they want, they should also realize that it is by far in their best interest (and others too) to learn how to use it, learn how to keep it safely, and learn how they are going to be responsible for it. That's easy to do, takes relatively little time, and doesn't have to cost too much -- way cheaper than lawyers and funerals. I never said anyone has to be appointed, anointed, or whatever, just that they ought to take a little time to learn what to do because that puts the odds in their favor. Not knowing almost always puts people in a world of hurt and there's way to much of that already. And if someone is not going to take the time to learn the basics and to be prepared in any way, shape, or form in the very least, then they should fully expect the stuff to hit the fan in a big, bad, and very ugly way. In fact that's pretty much exactly what has happened around here.
It's just better to be prepared than sorry. That's the point I was trying to make.
They're called sharpies. Cheap and indestructible enough if you know how to use it (for jabbing and what not, it should hold up fine). I usually have one in my pocket (for writing, not defense...).
If you have no training, just give them the money...
Pentel RSVP - I know this sounds lightweight for the job, but the barrel is super strong and all the fine tip ones are quite pointy. I think that if I really wanted to stab with it I might remove the grip. (not that I worry about that a lot) Something in the range of 1.59 each.
When all else fails, you could write on them. Sharpies use indelible ink :woohoo:
When all else fails, you could write something on your attacker. Sharpies use indelible ink, after all. :woohoo:
I'd look at the Sharpie Stainless Steel too. the SS looks great, has a nice clip and could used a defensive weapon in a pinch. The Sharpie professional should work too. Its nice and solid with its all plastic construction plus it has some rubber on the sides to improve grip.
I'd read that on the stainless steel sharpie, the metal pieces don't connect directly to each other, but one part -- the cap, I suppose -- connects to plastic. That presumably means that the first time you hit something with it at a slightly odd angle, which most assuredly will happen in a defensive situation and probably on the first hit, it breaks. Can anyone who has one of these pens confirm how the metal pieces couple?
The cap snaps onto the plastic refill.
I suppose that's what happens when a pen company designs a pen for writing not self-defense.
I'm going to guess that it'll still hold up better than a normal sharpie though (those are fairly tough). That certainly brings it's appeal down for me though.
While not a pen, don't forget a stainless steel pen-type tire guage.
The newer ones from China don't seem as sturdy as the ones I bought
years ago, but may still be serviceable--although they may not be too
accurate in measuring tire pressure!
To allay suspicion while carrying one, wear an inner tube
around your torso and tell questioners that you just swam
off the Titanic.
I have seen Dental Floss braided and used as a garrote... makes the point that anything can be used as a weapon.... I carry a Hinderer as a Pen but really for the kubotan aspect... Only one person has looked at it aslant... so I showed them the Pen and they said "wow cool novelty pen" and I said nothing... Heck once an Officer used a coffee carafe to save his own life...
Yeah, I think it's the common, everyday items that are the best.
Rick Hinderer's products are great, but I've become partial to the Alpha Innovations
product made from composite that they can reportedly hammer through plywood. It's
very light to carry. You can't write with it, though. It's not a pen.
When I go out after dark lately I've taken to carrying one of my blackthorn or other
canes. No one gives me a second glance.
One guy even looked at me with my gray beard, old style cap, and cane, and
said, "Hi Poppy!"
And here I thought I still looked like 30!
This thread was moved from the Pen section since it topic was about a weapon primarily.
Hey Alpha Innovations, are you listening oke: So make us a pen already! I'm in for sure, and you guys can do it right as far as materials go.
I must admit, I'm of a split mind on all this. On the one hand, I have a couple handfuls of plastic weapons: kubotans, Alpha Innovations pocket stick and stylus, Cold Steel Kogas, Cold Steel Sharkie, Stingers, Travel Wrenches. I do like them, and I usually have one of them with me, and I know I could make any of them work.
On the other hand, I'm convinced a could make nearly anything I happen to have in my hand work about as well, and that includes any generic pen I happen to be carrying. Maybe the Cold Steel Sharkie is a bit longer and a bit sturdier than the Super Sharpie or Sharpie Chisel Tip, but I can't imagine this would translate into any appreciable difference in an actual situation. I think a thrust to the ribs with one would be about the same as a thrust to the ribs with the others.
The advantage of carrying a generic pen is that no cop or security guard who gets the Cold Steel catalog can ever suggest I was carrying a "weapon." Also, I'm too cheap to spend hundreds of dollars on a pen, regardless of whether someone is marketing it as a "weapon." To do damage to connective tissue, muscle, and nerves, you don't need to use titanium--firm plastic will do.
I've read that Tak Kubota originally intended for his Kubotan techniques to be used with a sturdy pen, before there were any "self-defense pens" on the market. I think he eventually realized if he left it at that, he would have very little to sell--hence the trademarked plastic rod with the keyring--essentially a large, sturdy pen that does not write.
Alpha Innovations Stylus is very sturdy and costs $7. It doesn't write either, but clipped to your pocket it looks exactly like a pen. I've used it in the supermarket to punch keys to weigh and price produce and have never gotten a second look. Would work for a hand-held device. Might be good for germiphobes as well--to punch grubby elevator buttons, for example.
If you insist on having something that writes and are afraid your plastic Sharpie will shatter against a rib--if that happened, I'd hate to see the rib--the stainless steel Sharpie is now on the market. I bought one last week at Office Depot for about $6. It seems very sturdy, and takes a screw-in refill. I also saw another metal pen there that looks more like a "self-defense pen." It's the new Focus Foray. It's fairly thick, fairly long, and it has groves along its length that reminded me of a Kubotan. At $27 it was a bit pricey for me, but it looks as if it would work fine.
Historically, people have resorted to using everyday objects (often farming implements) as weapons during occupations in which all weapons were banned. This is the situation many of us find ourselves in today. It pays to understand how to use everyday objects--sturdy pens, umbrellas, walking sticks--as weapons of self-defense. But I tend to view the "self-defense pen" in the same light as I do the "self-defense cane": The ones not made specifically for self-defense will suffice.
What Kubota reportedly found out was that a pen was too sharp. It will penetrate and he did not want that.
I agree with Pocket Wad. I'm sure a sharpie (or any dull ended writing utensil/tool) would suffice.
Of course if you strike with the nib of a pen, it will penetrate. But most large sturdy pens whose nibs are covered by caps, will not. When Kubota trademarked the Kubotan, certainly there were hundreds, if not thousands, of sturdy pens on the market that would have fit the bill (Sharpies have been around since the early 1960s). The self-defense industry is just that--an industry. To make a living at it, you need to sell something--instruction, certifications, franchises, etc.
I actually think a self-defense keychain along the lines of a Kubotan is a good idea, if for only that a keychain will assure you have it on your person at all times, and you are likely to have it in your hand at critical times (such as walking through a parking lot to your car). But to think that a Kubotan is any more than a 6-inch plastic stick is naive. And to think that a "tactical pen" costing hundreds of dollars is any more than a sturdy pen, is also naive.