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Been gifted a 5.11 "3.6 Med Kit"... need some ideas on what to stick in it!

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by RogerStenning, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    ...and I have utterly no idea what the hell to stick in it.

    I should point out that I already have a TFAK living in a Vanquest 5x8 Gen 1 pouch on my EDC bag (see this thread); this new pouch would be in addition to that.

    So, ideas, please - what do you stick in YOUR 3.6 Med Kit pouches?
     
  2. Jdjernigan

    Jdjernigan Loaded Pockets

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    Go to YouTube and look for a guy named SkinnyMedic. He has lots of good advice, he has a webstore, and he also teaches a class that I would recommend.


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  3. Jdjernigan

    Jdjernigan Loaded Pockets

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    You can also check out what comes in some premade kits online and then hit up places like EBay for discounted/bulk prices. Several military surplus stores I frequent have had out of date surplus items available and I have hit those up.

    Also decide if the kit will be for boo-boo’s or for trauma. That will help to decide what you need. Mixing the two purposes kinda doesn’t work well. You wind up competing for space. In each of my trauma kits I do have a small snack size ziploc bag with boo-boo stuff like bandaids but their purpose in life is to deal with trauma. In each of my car First Aid kits I do include a tourniquet and a pressure dressing so I guess I do have some cross over. but anything I would stick in a BOB would be dedicated trauma with a zip-lock full of boo-boo stuff. What goes in my EDC is some boo-boo stuff with some basic meds (Motrin, anti-diarrheal, Zyrtec, Goody Powder).


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  4. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    As you can see from the thread I noted, that I'm not exactly short of PFAK/TFAK bits; problem is what to hold 'em in for rapid deployment, which was the point of the thread. I'm aware of SkinnyMedic's channel, I'm a subscriber, it's good stuff. Doesn't solve the problem of what to stick in the 3.6 pouch, mind ;) There's another wrinkle on this problem, though, which I found earlier today (Tuesday, during the daylight hours here).

    It transpires that, while the 3.6 pouch is a wonderfully built and produced bit of kit, it's about as useful as a chocolate tea pot (for want of a more accurate but utterly unprintable Scottish expression regarding fish and body parts).

    A CAT (Combat Application Tourniquet) will not fit in the external pocket, or under the internal loop inside the pouch - the plastic parts of the CAT are too wide, and the pocket itself will not expand, as while it's bloused inside the pocket, it's not elasticated at the mouth of the pocket, and the internal loop is, you guessed it, non-elasticated too.

    A 6" Israeli bandage will likewise not fit in the external pocket or under the loop, either, for exactly the same reasons. Now, I've also got a pack of Celox Z-fold gauze, but without being able to stow the other two items in the 3.6 pouch, it's not worth sticking that in there either. Aside from airway clearance (remember your ABCs), those are the MOST important parts to an IA TFAK: To stop the continuing flow of bleeding, and stop the remaining leaking (to quote SkinnyMedic "Ohmygod, that's a lot of blood!" :giggle:). And if those key elements cannot fit in the pouch, it's a useless pouch.

    Which is a mahoosive shame, as it's a nice pouch, very well put together, and should be useful, but because the key IA TFAK components won't fit, isn't. That's a truly shocking design deficiency that never should have been allowed to happen, imnsho.

    I'll eventually find a use for this pouch, but it's not likely to be what 5.11 intended it for, that's for sure.

    5.11, lads & lasses, you normally make such excellent kit, I'm mahoosively underwhelmed and shocked by this: you screwed the sodding pooch on this one. Back to the drawing board, toot sweet, if you ruddy please.

    In the mean time, the 3.6 pouch is going into my stores, on the unlikely off chance that smaller versions of the essentials become available.

    Given that time was of the essence, I had to make a decision today, as I go back to work on Thursday after a couple of days off, and had to get this sorted by then. So, I've ordered a pair of larger pouches, both by Condor. The "MA41: Rip-Away EMT pouch", for the main components, including the PFAK bits and bobs, and the "191031: Rip-Away EMT Lite", for the TFAK bits. They're more conventional rip-away pouches, and will do for the moment, I guess. I'm not too happy about it, but needed a rapid solution here. I'll stick move the existing PFAK and TFAC bits into these pouches when they arrive, and stick my Vanquest 5x8 pouch in reserve with the 3.6 pouch at that time.

    Cheers for the reply, anyhow.
     
    #4 RogerStenning, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  5. thekapow

    thekapow EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    check the compact options on this one. I dont see why a SOF-t, Celox ribbon, npa and compact hyfin should not fit. But sounds like you should just ditch the pouch ;) (btw; I made that list). If you cant fit an israeli - ditch it, pressure dressing is hardly life saving and can be improvised after packing - manual pressure.
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    I can use anything but the airway and decomp needle; I'm not licenced to use those items (requires at least Paramedic-level qualification and licencing over here in the UK); I wasn't aware of the compact items - I'll look into those, thanks. I've also got a FoxSeal non-vented chest seal (a pair of seals, in their wrapping), that'll be included in the Condor EMT Lite pouch, once it arrives. Forgot to mention that earlier. However, I'll definitely look into those compact alternatives; at the very least, they may make it to the 3.6 pouch, to be combined with the FAK I keep in the car.

    Cheers for the reply :)
     
  7. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    Hmm.The ribbon gauze is tricky to find here; I may substitute it for a Celox 'A' applicator. Thoughts?
     
  8. AV8R

    AV8R Loaded Pockets

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    +1 for SkinnyMedic.
     
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  9. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    Right, the Condor pouches I mentioned arrived earlier, and I spend 45 minutes packing them with the various bits. Here's the listings, then the photos :)

    TFAK (Trauma First Aid Kit)
    • 1 x CAT, Blaze Orange.
    • 1 x Foxseal Chest Seal (pair), unvented, sterile
    • 1 x 6" Israeli bandage, sterile
    • 1 x Celox Z-fold haemostatic Gauze, sterile
    • 1 x Foil survival blanket (shock reduction measure)
    • 1 x Antibacterial gel bottle
    • 2 x pairs nitrile barrier gloves
    [​IMG]

    PFAK (Personal First Aid Kit)

    • 1 x Generic CAT-style tourniquet, black
    • 1 x SAM Splint
    • 1 x Eye pad bandadge with dressing, sterile
    • 1 x Ambulance Crepe Bandage roll, sterile
    • 1 x 12x12cm Medium HSE-compliant Dressing, sterile
    • 1 x assorted pack fabric-backed Sticking plasters (US: Band Aids),
    • 6 x Cleaning wipes (antiseptic wipes), in sealed foil envelopes
    • 1 x Pain killers (Neurofen Instants), pack of tablets
    • 1 x Anti-diahoreah teatment (Immodium Instants), pack of tablets
    • 1 x Insect sting and bite treatment, pen,
    • 1 x Tick removal tool, pen
    • 1 x Eye relief spray (Optrex with witch hazel), bottle
    • 1 x Blister treatment kit (Compeed), pack
    • 1 x Tyrozet lozenges for sore throats, bottle
    • 1 x UV-resistant lip balm, tube
    • 1 x Brulidine Cream (an antiseptic and antibacterial ointment), tube
    • 1 x Roll of physio tape,
    • 1 x Pr EMT Shears
    • 2 x Foil survival blankets (shock reduction measure)
    • 1 x backup Escape Tool (seatbelt cutter and window punch)
    • 1 x Pack disposable paper tissues
    There are a few bits in the PFAK that can be used on casualties, but which may not be as urgently needed as the components in the TFAK.

    [​IMG]

    Both pouches are mounted on MOLLE-equipped velcro breakaway boards, which are fitted to the side of my Rush-24 EDC bag.

    I reckon I've got the FAKs sorted, for the time being. Time will likely show me altering it here and there, but I think for the most part, that's got it down to about where I need it.

    I'll keep on with the 3.6 pouch and smaller components in slow time.

    Cheers for the comments, folks.
     
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  10. Jdjernigan

    Jdjernigan Loaded Pockets

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    Good listing of stuff but I would say that a NPA is something else to consider. I saw your comments about legality but honestly not sure how much damage you can do with an NPA. I don’t have a decompression needle cause they scare me with my level of training.


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  11. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    It's not the damage, it's the prosecution that'll stuff you forever afterwards. Just not worth the risk, imho.
     
  12. thekapow

    thekapow EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    nope, the celox granulates are even more invasive than NPA and decompression needle and would in UK be considered a surgical intervention, this goes for any wound packing in general, gauze is just easier to justify since it leaves alot less mess to deal with for us in the OR. Even a paramedic license is not enough to justify the npa and decompression needle. the license is only good on the job and still requires a medical director (or NHS) to sign off the specific skill. A special registration can be made to use a specific drug or skill when off duty but that is a complex process.
     
    Last edited by thekapow, Jan 26, 2018
    #12 thekapow, Jan 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
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  13. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    Had a hunch that might be the case. Cheers for the confirmation. Guess I'll have to keep on looking for the ribbon gauze, then.
     
  14. Medic1

    Medic1 Loaded Pockets

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    A field expedient tourniquet can be made from a cravat. And i have done tons of happy treatment with 4" kerlix. If the cat is essential to the kit tie it to the handle. In a crisis no one cares what it looks like.
    The 5.11 kit the OP questions does look small. Use it for a basic FAK. The condor rip away kits are great. I have three.
     
    Last edited by Medic1, Jan 31, 2018
    #14 Medic1, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  15. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    Interesting. hadn't thought of that. I'll bear that in mind, thanks :)
     
  16. ArkansasFan30

    ArkansasFan30 Loaded Pockets

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    I have one of the same pouches. I couldn't leverage it well with it's small size. I loaded a pic on the thread once and later my posted my replacement. I need to get the pouch listed on fleabay.
     
  17. ArkansasFan30

    ArkansasFan30 Loaded Pockets

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    I think the benefit is one handed application followed by looking cool and having a tourniquet.
     
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  18. RogerStenning

    RogerStenning EDC Junkie

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    Yeah. Finally got a sof-t tourniquet (their part number SOFTT-NH) and a 4-inch Israeli bandage. Tight fit even then on the tourniquet. You can't fit a chest seal in the 3.6 pouch either, I'll note - at least, I've not been able to figure out how one could go in there. So, the pouch, sof-t, and the 4" IB, are sitting on the shelf of my cupboard as a home TFAK element.

    I had to get a Condor rip-away EMT-Lite pouch for the daily TFAK. It's not perfect by any stretch, but it does the basics of what I need. It's mate is the full size Condor EMT rip-away pouch, which holds the rest of my PFAK and IFAK bits. Both are strapped to the side of my 5.11 Rush-24 day pack, which is my EDC pack at work. So, solution achieved, just not with the 3.6 pouch.

    Shame, really, but is shouldn't have been this way - I still maintain that, based on my experience with it, the 3.6 pouch is not fit for a trauma kit as it's too small for either the most common of tactical tourniquets, or even a small chest seal pack. It WILL take a trauma bandage, but that's about it, unless you go for smaller and less-capable items, and in that situation, again, it fails in being an adequate size for a basic trauma kit.

    If you have a better experience with the 3.6 pouch that I have had, please, sing out. I'd like to see how you got around its limitations.
     
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  19. Medic1

    Medic1 Loaded Pockets

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    One handed application T is certainly better in design however if the injured is doing it with no help I hope he remains conscious long enough to do it. A caregiver may use digital pressure in the right place and do a one handed application to the injured but it would be exciting at the least. Practice with whatever tourniquet is in the kit. I say this because i know many people who have them in their kit with no idea of what they are doing. A built in T in a combat uniform in the arms and legs is special but dont know how many of those have been issued.
     
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  20. Medic1

    Medic1 Loaded Pockets

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    Decompression needle.....i feel like i worked with stone knives and tools. Lg bore needle, suture and penrose called a flutter valve. Lots of things had to be improvised.
     
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