Separate names with a comma.
Are you a current member with account or password issues?
Please visit following page for more information
Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Valpo Hawkeye, Nov 14, 2008.
Let's hope that none of us has to put any of these methods into real life use.
I have been fortunate that, as a civilian, I have not used my training. So far...
As I age, my reaction time has increased. That is WHY I remain a proponent of avoidance and real estate. Practice the former and keep plenty of the latter between yourself and the bad element and you will likely not need to use those methods.
Keep training, though. Fortune may favor the bold, but prudence allows the once-bold to enjoy the fortune.
I always carry with a round chambered. For a Glock type pistol, the holster itself is the primary safety device so it's imperative to have a quality holster. Some weapons should be carried in different conditions with loaded chambers such as Tokarev types which are meant to be carried half cocked so know your weapon and carry accordingly.
On this subject, you guys would probably enjoy this piece of gear. It's a Russian Spetsnaz holster for the Makarov. With this the pistol is meant to be carried with an empty chamber and one smart motion downward racks the slide and disengages the safety. At the end of the motion you are automatically standing in a good defensive pistol position and since the hammer is cocked, you have a nice crisp single action trigger on the first shot. You can also draw the pistol conventionally with this as well.
I don't not carry a round in the chamber
I always carry a round in the chamber and I carry JHP ammo. I've seen a lot of pics of guns with FMJ ammo around here.
My choices...as a relative noob to pistols and CC (~1500-2000 rounds in training and competition).
Glock (or similar): one in the pipe, safety off if it has one.
I'm confident that with both I won't shoot myself and could use it effectively if the need arose. I bought a baby-1911 first because I wasn't completely confident in CC holsters being "enough" when moving it between my waist and my bag (say, at night) and things like that.
After enough time getting used to carrying (and the disposable funds), I'm going to move to a glock. I'm sold on it. I just need a little more time to feel confident in my non-shooting gun handling habits to abandon the switch.
All guns are loaded all the time. Slide locked back? I don't care, that's a loaded gun. You put the gun unloaded in the drawer yesterday and are getting it out today? Loaded.
My hand guns always have a round in the chamber unless I'm cleaning them or doing drills at home, (or in between shots at the range).
My long guns (currently down to just an AR-15, but I'm getting the bug to buy a shotgun again), are never stored with a round in the chamber. Mostly because I don't have a safe or locking cabinet big enough to keep long guns in. So I keep all my AR mags in the safe loaded or not.
But any time I pickup my AR I treat it like it has a round in the chamber.
I feel like I've made my next comments before but here we go. I was raised in a family without guns. I was the first person I'm my immediate family to buy a gun. When I bought my first gun (pistol) I never kept a round in the chamber. Ever. Eventually a bought another pistol with a safety and started keeping a round in the chamber. Then I bought a Glock and didn't keep a round in the chamber. I carried it around, sat on it, did all sorts of things to it and checked the trigger constantly to see if I managed to pull it. Never did. Now I only have one gun with a safety (p238) and all my hand guns are chambered, even those in the safe.
Take your time and do what you feel comfortable with. No one else has to live with a ND caused by you. Be 100% comfortable with whatever you decide to do. If you are not, find a different way or sell your guns. My .02 given for free.
Aw man, those are hard to find!
Neat piece of gun swag
Thanks. I had a feeling they would dry up quick.
I should have added a disclaimer when I posted that this is not something for a n00b.
I don't carry a round chambered. I've weighed the pros and cons and I have concluded that the chances of me shooting myself in the foot with a round chambered is greater than me ever having to draw down on someone.
Cocked, locked and ready to rock, 23/7. No concerns here, been carrying for 15 moths or so around firearms for 18 mths'ish. Ruger SR9c.
Sig p238 one in the chamber. Glock 26 I do not. I will eventually start to carry the Glock with one in the chamber. I just haven't found a holster that I trust for that.
I have carried a G26/19 and a Shield 9. I was apprehensive about carrying 1 in the chamber at first, but I won't carry any other way now.
There are 3 things that you need to consider:
1. You need to train to keep your finger out of the trigger guard at all times except when gun is ready and on target.
2. You need to have a holster that covers the trigger guard
3. You need to be REALLY CAREFUL when re-holstering as a garment can get caught in the trigger guard and cause a discharge.
I don't have any reservation carrying either of my Glocks in condition 0. My Shield I carry this way too, but I keep the manual safety on while holstering and I click it off once it's in the holster securely.
Hope this helps.
I keep five rounds in the chambers.
I see what you did there...
My take is, an empty chamber is gonna take more specific actions, and more time to employ than a loaded one. Full stop. Why give yourself an unnecessary handicap?
Now that I have a 1911 in my EDC rotation, I have to get used to having a safety. I still carry a round chambered, since the mag only holds 7 rds. I need that extra topoff.
the LCP in the pocket has a round chambered... since the G17 in the JanSport bag does not have a dedicated holster that covers the trigger, it is chamber empty... I have a very low perception of threat... I'm just a kindly old retired school teacher...
trauma supplies fit in the outside pocket...makes a nice package
Statistically, there is only the slightest of chances that you will ever be in a CQB pistol gunfight. Even less likely than, 'slim to none' is the likelihood that you will ever be caught in a close-quarter AMBUSH type of CQB pistol gunfight.
If you want to carry in C-1, then, fine. My suggestion, however, would be for you to do what almost nobody on anybody's gun forum ever does: Weight the probability of harm being caused by you carrying daily in C-1 against the probability of you becoming caught up in a sudden close-quarter AMBUSH pistol gunfight. (Because that's all that C-1 carry is really good for!) Then compare these probabilities against the increased risk to: yourself, your family, your friends, neighbors, and co:workers.
If you're satisfied that the risk of the formerly mentioned AMBUSH event happening to you is greater than the risk of sudden unintended injury to any of the latter mentioned parties, then, sure go ahead and carry your pistol around in C-1. As long as you're not my neighbor I know I don't care.
I'm older than many on this board. None of my Marine Corps, 'uncles' were allowed to carry their 1911's in C-1 during either the Second World War, Korea, or Vietnam; but, times have changed; and people are more bullet resistant, today, than in the past. Furthermore, and for whatever it's worth, I either know of, or have read about - not dozens, but - hundreds of police officers who have negligently discharged their striker-fired pistols.
Even our own police department has a bullet hole in the front office wall. When I remarked to the Chief, 'Is that what I think it is?' He replied, 'Yeah, I suspended the officer who did it for 3 days, too!' May we agree that, 'The world is full of idiots!' (Because it is; and the older you get the more you're going to see it.) Anyone who asserts, 'Your safety is between your ears' is being truly ingenuous!
I'm a Certified Firearms Instructor and Range Safety Officer. Just a couple of weeks ago I had to yell at a highly experienced pistol shooter to warn him that he was, 'fiddle-farting' around with a fully charged Glock! He didn't realize it until after I called it out! He was very embarrassed to have made such a mistake; but he made it, nonetheless; and I had to call him on it. We were friends; I hope we still are; but only time is going to tell. (That's an RO's job; I really had little choice in the matter.)
No matter the amount of a shooter/carrier's, 'gray matter' anyone can make a thoughtless mistake at any time - That's people! Your safety is NOT, ' between your ears'. If it were NONE of your other firearms would have safeties on them; and THEY DO.
Considering your situation, I'd be more concerned about your type of holster and concealment than I would about your condition-of-carry. Pistols don't belong in backpacks - Especially semiautomatic pistols that are carried in C-1. If you really truly believe that the risk of a sudden AMBUSH attack is greater than the routine risk of harm to you and (among others) your family then, sure, go ahead and charge that pistol and head off, 'to war'.
If an extra 3/4's of a second and the use of two hands on the draw means THAT MUCH to you then, yes, your pistol should be routinely kept in C-1; but, at the same time, I know one fellow who's been in almost a dozen armed, life or death, confrontations during the past twenty years. I, also, know for a fact that he went into, at least, seven or eight of those assaults with his pistol in C-3 - Even when he had to face multiple armed opponents, all, at the same time!
It is NOT true that, 'only sissies carry their pistols in C-3'. So do highly moral, steel-nerved individuals who know how to CQB pistol gunfight, are actually excellent pistoleros, and - because of their temperament and/or personal beliefs - are ready, willing, and able to shoot it out with violent adversaries; and - if need be - even to die right where they're standing! (Such men are NOT sissies; and, in my time, I've personally known several of them.)
Quite frankly it always annoys me when some, 'internet C-1 gun yahoo' vents his anger or contempt for men whose shoes he isn't fit to stand in. 'Internet wisdom' (especially in matters of personal opinion) is cheap and easy to hand out. Too often it's, also, worth even less than you paid for it!
Other than the fact that you should rethink your method of storage and holster your gun properly, what I'm saying is that personal vigilance and actually knowing how to CQB pistol gunfight, well, will often prove to be more important than merely carrying a fully charged pistol; (or, at least, it has been for me and several other thoroughly experienced gunmen that I've known).
REMEMBER: PEOPLE, NO MATTER HOW SKILLFUL OR LUCKY, ALL MAKE MISTAKES. YOU D0N'T WANT ONE OF THOSE MISTAKES TO OCCUR WITH YOUR PISTOL - NOT WHILE THERE ARE PRECAUTIONS YOU CAN TAKE TO PREVENT AN UNFORTUNATE EVENT LIKE THIS FROM HAPPENING.
WHAT IS THE GENUINELY APPLICABLE DEGREE OF RISK INVOLVED IN YOU CARRYING IN C-1? I'LL LEAVE THAT FOR YOU TO DETERMINE.
Stinger, that's legit.
I, however, currently carry a p938 in C1 with a good holster (that covers the trigger guard and the safety lever) and a firing pin block that makes the trigger feel like carp but gives a lot of peace of mind.
Accidents happen, but I take much more likely and just as devastating risks every time I drive.
The issues you discussed ARE why I didn't buy a Glock first. I still think I want one, but I keep going back and forth on it....I'm afraid of C3 and C0 (which are the only relevant positions glocks can do).
If I can find a the right alternative, I'm not sure I'll ever own a glock, mostly because of that dilemma.
But you're right, a lot of the fear of C3 comes from "experts" online (or in some cases teaching lousy classes) who are too slow out of the holster to do anything anyway....a lot of the popular ones on YouTube are over 2 seconds to first shot with split times of like .6-.8s. I'm not what anyone would call good yet, and their 2-to-the-chest times are on par with my Mozambique times. If those are actually "good enough" times, then I have timer data for uspsa C3 starts that support your point...I've seen people do bill drills from C3 in 2s (not me).
That all being said, it's not fair to compare police to the general population. Statistically, cops shoot worse. And, in my experience at ranges for the last 13 years or so....they have worse habits.
My primary weapon is a 1911 for both carry and home. Compact and full size. I do not keep these guns charged with a pill in the chamber. I have trained extensively with these guns and I am a proficient shooter. During all my initial training and Competitive Combat shooting days my gun was always in C1 status at the range. If need be I can charge and fire quickly. This is purely because I am extremely familiar with my gun and am vigilant about how I handle and store it. I suggest you become very familiar with your gun before considering C1 carry. This can only be accomplished by investing in proper training and diligent range time.
I am a strong believer that you are only as good as your training.
Train with the ammo you are going to carry.
Situational awareness goes a long way.
Negligent Discharge is greatly reduced IMHO if chamber is empty per carry style C3.
Thus I carry hammer down and empty chamber. Works for me.
My back up is a Walther PPKS ... fully charged ... safety "ON".